Motion, shift or nothing

schwinn · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 04:14pm

We had this happen the other night and I think I got it right as the R. A is at the line. QB says set and everyone except A2 goes from a two point stance to a three point stance. About a second after they shift and a half a second before the ball is snapped A2 goes down to his three point stance and his hand hits the ground right about the time the ball is snapped. I throw the flag and call an illegal shift. I'm about half convinced this is right. Is this the right call?

andy1033 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 05:26pm

You got it right.

TXMike · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 07:13pm

Illegal motion in NCAA rules. Shift requires 2 or more to move.

andy1033 · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 07:36pm

If all 11 do not come set for 1 sec it is illegal shift.

andy1033 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 07:37pm

If all 11 do not stop for 1 sec it is illegal shift.

TXMike · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 07:44pm

All 11 did stop for the second the way I read his post. After that second, the RB started moving to a new position and is still moving when the ball is snapped. And now that I re-read the post...unless he was moving forward, his movement is not even illegal motion.

ThickSkin · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by schwinn
We had this happen the other night and I think I got it right as the R. A is at the line. QB says set and everyone except A2 goes from a two point stance to a three point stance. About a second after they shift and a half a second before the ball is snapped A2 goes down to his three point stance and his hand hits the ground right about the time the ball is snapped. I throw the flag and call an illegal shift. I'm about half convinced this is right. Is this the right call?

We had a similar situation... During conference with visiting coach for team B he gives us the "we have had this happen to us this year..." Anyway... Team A breaks the huddle and heads to the LOS. The linemen and backs are all set. Before the QB goes under center, he has his WR go in motion (between the QB and Center) once the WR passes him, he steps under center and has the ball snapped while the WR is still in motion. We flag it for illegal shift. Needless to say in the conference with coach B we told him that this was in fact a penatly so we were basically forced to call it all night!!! Coach B got us. We ended up calling the illegal shift 11 times that night.

schwinn · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TXMike
All 11 did stop for the second the way I read his post. After that second, the RB started moving to a new position and is still moving when the ball is snapped. And now that I re-read the post...unless he was moving forward, his movement is not even illegal motion.

So you're saying it was nothing? I'm not arguing, just asking.

TXMike · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:09pm

Assuming they were all stopped for the second and then the RB started moving into a different stance with ball being snapped while he is putting that hand down, I have nothing.

Texas Aggie · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 10:00pm

I was going to post exactly what Mike concluded with (NCAA), as I didn't see a foul if the player is in the backfield. HOWEVER, if he's on the line, isn't that false start, Mike?

AndrewMcCarthy · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ThickSkin
We had a similar situation... During conference with visiting coach for team B he gives us the "we have had this happen to us this year..." Anyway... Team A breaks the huddle and heads to the LOS. The linemen and backs are all set. Before the QB goes under center, he has his WR go in motion (between the QB and Center) once the WR passes him, he steps under center and has the ball snapped while the WR is still in motion. We flag it for illegal shift. Needless to say in the conference with coach B we told him that this was in fact a penatly so we were basically forced to call it all night!!! Coach B got us. We ended up calling the illegal shift 11 times that night.

Sounds like you got it right.

On the original play I have nothing- sounds legal.

BktBallRef · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by schwinn
We had this happen the other night and I think I got it right as the R. A is at the line. QB says set and everyone except A2 goes from a two point stance to a three point stance. About a second after they shift and a half a second before the ball is snapped A2 goes down to his three point stance and his hand hits the ground right about the time the ball is snapped. I throw the flag and call an illegal shift. I'm about half convinced this is right. Is this the right call?

7-2-7
Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent's goal line.

Was his movement toward the opponent's goal line?

Sounds like it. If he's facing the goal line and he goes from a 2 point stance to a 3 point stance, I have to believe he's moving forward.

Illegal motion.

TXMike · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 01, 2005, 05:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
I was going to post exactly what Mike concluded with (NCAA), as I didn't see a foul if the player is in the backfield. HOWEVER, if he's on the line, isn't that false start, Mike?

If he is on the line then it is clearly illegal motion as a lineman cannot be in motion at the snap. Not a false start though.

mcrowder · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 01, 2005, 08:57am

If a back, this guy's motion is legal. If a lineman, he can move late like this, as long as he is set for an additional second before the snap - so as described, illegal.

TXMike · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 01, 2005, 10:26am

Is that a Fed requirement, a single lineman moving has to be set for a full second before the snap? That is not true in NCAA.