Muffed punt and second kick

[footballref]

Thought I had seen this posted on a message board, but cannot find it. What would you have here? I think it is R's ball where K falls on the second punt. Also, please list a rule reference, as that is what I am unable to find to support my answer.

Play: 4th and 10 from the K20 yard line. K's scrimmage
kick is short and is muffed in flight by R at the K30
yard line and bounces back to the K15 yard line where
the punter picks up the ball again and kicks a second
scrimmage kick from behind the neutral zone. The second
kick goes about 35 yards where there is no longer an R
player to receive a kick. The ball is recovered by K at
midfield.

Ruling?

[HLin NC]

If we're talking Fed go to Rule 6-2.
There is no specific rule coverage regarding a second kick, either in favor or against. That which is not prohibited is allowed.

There was a lively discussion about this scenario on one of the boards not to long ago. Try using the "search" function on them and you might find it.

[footballref]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

If we're talking Fed go to Rule 6-2.
There is no specific rule coverage regarding a second kick, either in favor or against. That which is not prohibited is allowed.

There was a lively discussion about this scenario on one of the boards not to long ago. Try using the "search" function on them and you might find it.

Yeah, I know I read it somewhere...just not sure where. The second kick is not what I am asking about. I am wanting to know who gets the ball after the second kick since it was muffed previously and the re-kicked.

[kdf5]

There have been some discussions on other boards about this play and I think most people are in consensus that the second kick wipes out the first one so that R's touch of the first kick is no longer a factor and the ball will belong to R when the second kick becomes dead.

[HLin NC]

That is why I pointed you to rule 6-2. The second kick doesn't change anything. It will remain R's ball.

[footballref]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

That is why I pointed you to rule 6-2. The second kick doesn't change anything. It will remain R's ball.

Thanks. I didn't see that...I am an umpire

[chymechowder]

In NCAA the ball would become dead when recovered by the punter. It would be K's ball (Team A), 1st/10 at their 15.

So you're saying in Fed, that if the return team muffs a punt, the kick team can pick it up and advance it?? Or can they only do something with it (in this case, kick it again) if the recovery is behind the neutral zone?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

So you're saying in Fed, that if the return team muffs a punt, the kick team can pick it up and advance it?? Or can they only do something with it (in this case, kick it again) if the recovery is behind the neutral zone?

Either team can advance a kick recovered in K's backfield, whether it's been muffed or not.

K can also pass or kick the ball again.

[ump33]

This play was discussed at NFHS Forum at the following link:

NFHS Forum: Two Scrimmage Kicks

After much debate, the following reply was posted:

OFFICIAL NFHS RULING: Called on this and their ruling is that K, by kicking again, had given up possession and with it the right to a new series. K downing the kick becomes first touching under 5-1-3g.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ump33

This play was discussed at NFHS Forum at the following link:

NFHS Forum: Two Scrimmage Kicks

After much debate, the following reply was posted:

OFFICIAL NFHS RULING: Called on this and their ruling is that K, by kicking again, had given up possession and with it the right to a new series. K downing the kick becomes first touching under 5-1-3g.

Right, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this show up in the case book.

When R muffs a scrimmage kick beyond the LOS, the team in possession at the end of the down will get a new series (5-1-3f). This is the provision that leads some to think that K should get the ball after the second kick.

However, the purpose of this kind of scrimmage kick is to initiate a change of possession. That's still true for the second kick. And the second kick is legal: no rule prohibits a second kick (compare the forward pass rule), the ball is not dead when K recovers a kick behind the NZ (6-2-3), and during any down a team may legally perform a scrimmage kick before team possession has changed (6-2-1).

A second legal kick need not betray an ignorance of the rules: if R blocks the kick and never touches it beyond the NZ, a second kick is not a bad idea.

But on this play K would have had a new series after recovering a kick that R muffed beyond the NZ, and in most cases they should just keep the ball. If NFHS had given K the ball in this play, that ruling would reward ignorance. I think that the reported ruling is right on the money.