Illegal motion or shift?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Do you meant if you have one player go in motion (one player cannot shift)? He didn't say you'd have no foul - you'd have illegal motion.

I guess that's my question then: in NCAA you can have a flag for illegal motion when no player is moving?

[bigjohn]

Pretty sure the guy who posted about the jv game uses fed rules.


I was answering him and adding what the NFHS rules are on this.
I know it (illegal shift on QB) seldom gets called.

[mbyron]

Welpe posted a point about NCAA in post #10, and the next 3 posts addressed that issue. You then inserted a NF case play as if it were part of that conversation, prompting mbcrowder's question.

Illegal shift is rarely called on QB's because they hardly ever shift illegally. Of course, your "thing" is that officials don't throw enough flags, so I don't expect this point to have much impact.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Pretty sure the guy who posted about the jv game uses fed rules.


I was answering him and adding what the NFHS rules are on this.
I know it (illegal shift on QB) seldom gets called.

So, in a post about an NCAA game amid questions about NCAA rules, a single poster mentioned that this happened to him in a FED game, in post 6. You answer him in post 9. Then for some reason you are responding to him again, hours later?

Face it - you just weren't paying attention. Happens to everyone. "oops - my bad" would have gone over much better than rolling your eyes at us.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Face it - you just weren't paying attention. Happens to everyone. "oops - my bad" would have gone over much better than rolling your eyes at us.

Maybe we'll be treated to claims that NCAA officials don't have enough flags either.

[bigjohn]

On goal line and short yardage the whole team isn't set for a full second and the snap is off and the play is run and chains are moved. That seldom gets called. Happens a bunch!!!!!!!

[Welpe]

NCAA officials never call butt blocking either! What's wrong with them?

mbyron, as I understand it, if the QB stops, he is legal since he was not in motion and his movement was not considered a shift. I will need to dig into the books a little more to see if there's an interp.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Maybe we'll be treated to claims that NCAA officials don't have enough flags either.

you never throw enough against the opponents of MY team, but you always throw too many ON my team!!

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

On goal line and short yardage the whole team isn't set for a full second and the snap is off and the play is run and chains are moved. That seldom gets called. Happens a bunch!!!!!!!

They are in my games.....any night of the week. Lowly HS games, of course.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

They are in my games.....any night of the week. Lowly HS games, of course.

I jumped my own gun...the chains are probably being set down or moved. If it's goal line territory with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, and goal...there's only the box (officially called: down marker box) at that point...unless the offense has a chance to gain 1st down close to the end zone. Even our lower level coaches will be screaming for a call if it's evident the team wasn't set.

[Official]

Ok I know I've got to be over thinking this. Help me out please.

Offensive players cannot move once they put their hands on the ground they are "married" to the ground.

Players on the end of the line can move after placing a hand on the ground. Players declared as backs can also move.

If a player is in motion at the snap he must be 5 yards behind the LOS.

A player may not move perpendicular to the LOS (Wouldn't this be a false start and not IM though? How could you not blow a movement toward the LOS dead?

If a player in the backfield is set and shuffles a little to the left/right is this act legal?

Is a player set if they are standing motionless and picking their nose?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Official

Ok I know I've got to be over thinking this. Help me out please.

Offensive players cannot move once they put their hands on the ground they are "married" to the ground.

Once an interior linemen places his hand on or near the ground, he can't lift it.

If a player is in motion at the snap he must be 5 yards behind the LOS.

No. If he's not a back and goes in motion, he must be at least 5 yards behind to LOS.

A player may not move perpendicular to the LOS (Wouldn't this be a false start and not IM though? How could you not blow a movement toward the LOS dead?

He can't be moving toward the LOS when the ball is snapped.

If a player in the backfield is set and shuffles a little to the left/right is this act legal?

Yes.

Is a player set if they are standing motionless and picking their nose?

There's no requirement that the player be motionless. He just has to be set and not making any movement that simulates action at the snap.

[Official]

thanks I truly appreciate it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Official

A player may not move perpendicular to the LOS (Wouldn't this be a false start and not IM though? How could you not blow a movement toward the LOS dead?

So... you've never seen an RB line up, and then go in motion a couple of steps forward first, and then out to the side? Happens all the time, and not IM or False Start - totally legal as long as they are not moving forward AT THE SNAP, and did not simulate the start of the play when he went in motion.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Official

Ok I know I've got to be over thinking this. Help me out please.
Players declared as backs can also move.

A player may not move perpendicular to the LOS (Wouldn't this be a false start and not IM though? How could you not blow a movement toward the LOS dead?

If a player in the backfield is set and shuffles a little to the left/right is this act legal?

Is a player set if they are standing motionless and picking their nose?

Unfortunately (or fortunately) there are no absolutes. Example; a school here uses "motion" a lot. Usually a back, who has been clearly set, will rise deliberately, take one step forward than pivot and go in motion one way or the other. No problem, works well.

At certain times, late in the game, 3 yards to go for an important 1st down, etc. that sequence is repeated with one difference. The back, still clearly set, EXPLODES forward for one step, pivots and goes in motion. No doubt in my mind the intent is to draw the Defense into the NZ for a cheap 5 yard penalty.

If the Defense bites, I'll flag the offense and that sequence will not be repeated. If the defense doesn't bite, I'll decide whether to flag the offense or whisper in the back's ear, after the play, that if he draws the defense into the NZ, I'm going to flag him. Usually that also stops that sequence from being repeated.