Taking A Knee

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Just out of curiosity --- in what way is #2 not supported in the rule book?

Well, um, the rule book (or the manual) doesn't say to do it this way. I'm not saying that they both violate the book, just that the book doesn't decide between them.

Look, all I'm saying is that they're both very common ways to handle the end of a game. I suspect that #2 is more common the higher one works.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Well, um, the rule book (or the manual) doesn't say to do it this way. I'm not saying that they both violate the book, just that the book doesn't decide between them.

Look, all I'm saying is that they're both very common ways to handle the end of a game. I suspect that #2 is more common the higher one works.

Wasn't really arguing with you - you and I usually see eye to eye. I think number 2 is completely supported by the rulebook. If the rulesmakers wanted us to behave differently at the end of the game vs the rest of the game, they would say so. The rules apply to the entire game, otherwise they are worthless.

I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Wasn't really arguing with you - you and I usually see eye to eye. I think number 2 is completely supported by the rulebook. If the rulesmakers wanted us to behave differently at the end of the game vs the rest of the game, they would say so. The rules apply to the entire game, otherwise they are worthless.

I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph.

Everything is not about the rules makers. The rules makers are not the ones that hire us or give interpretations for each state. Just try to call the NF and they will tell you to direct all rules questions to your state. And what we do for example is not about the rules makers, it is about what is custom and expected where we are when the game is clearly over.

Peace

[bigjohn]

Rule 1-1-6 Covers this nicely I believe!

ART. 6 . . . The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good
sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules. The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.

The fake kneel down is not covered specifically in the rule book but it stinks of Wrong ball and Where's the Tee? They are both types of deception that is disallowed as is hidden ball if you must have a live ball one to hang your hat on!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Rule 1-1-6 Covers this nicely I believe!

ART. 6 . . . The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good
sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules. The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.

The fake kneel down is not covered specifically in the rule book but it stinks of Wrong ball and Where's the Tee? They are both types of deception that is disallowed as is hidden ball if you must have a live ball one to hang your hat on!

1-1-6 is not in there to tell us to invent rules, or to officiate differently in one part of the game as opposed to the rest of the game.

1-1-6 is baseball's rule 10-1-C. What if a helicopter lands on the field during a live ball (or a Chick Fil A Cow)? What if an earthquake occurs during a play. What if a buffalo runs onto the field during a live ball? The TRULY unforeseeable instance.

The fake kneel down is not covered... neither is yelling Pitch Right and throwing a bomb. Both are legal. (Incidentally, Wrong Ball and Where's the Tee ARE covered by the rules).

Shutting these down is imposing your own sense of sportsmanship on the game where it is not appropriate. (And honestly, the scenario of the muffed snap where you've told the defense to relax is a FAR more common problem with the philosophy of telling the defense not to be ready or not to hit anyone).

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(Incidentally, Wrong Ball and Where's the Tee ARE covered by the rules).

Actually, only "Where's the tee?" is covered in the Case Book. It's covered under Unfair Acts. That rule says the referee can assess whatever penalty he feels equitable.

Officials, evdiently you included, use the same principle to cover the "Wrong ball" play.

So the coach yells, "We're taking a knee," and doesn't.

Please tell me how that's different than yelling "Where's the tee?" or "This isn't our ball!"

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Actually, only "Where's the tee?" is covered in the Case Book. It's covered under Unfair Acts. That rule says the referee can assess whatever penalty he feels equitable.

Officials, evdiently you included, use the same principle to cover the "Wrong ball" play.

So the coach yells, "We're taking a knee," and doesn't.

Please tell me how that's different than yelling "Where's the tee?" or "This isn't our ball!"

It is totally different. Just read the comment at the end of the case play you are talking about.

"Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."

Where's the tee and wrong ball are illegal because they are actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem and the snap is not imminent. The coach yelling out "we're taking a knee" does not make the defense think the snap is not imminent because of some sort of a problem....in fact it is neither a problem nor making the defense think that the snap is not imminent.

If you are going to try to say that this is covered by unfair acts at least say that it is something not covered under the rules, don't cite a case play which doesn't support your argument.

[whitehat]

Each crew/association will use their best judgment as to how to handle this. Its not something we should get too dogmatic about.

Careful friends...lest our tone becomes counterproductive to learning...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Each crew/association will use their best judgment as to how to handle this. Its not something we should get too dogmatic about.

Careful friends...lest our tone becomes counterproductive to learning...

Yep or +1

Peace

[jemiller]

The offensive QB tells us, and we inform the opposing team. I actually position myself very close to the LOS to prevent any issues. They have to make an accurate and complete snap, but once it is done the QB goes to the knee and the play is over. JIM