Taking A Knee

[mbyron]

Clearly we have 2 schools of thought here:

1. Facilitate a smooth and injury-free end of the game by publicizing A's intention to take a knee, and penalize A if they fail to follow through. The rationale for this policy is game management and player safety.

2. Never tell players what to do or put a team in a position where it cannot execute an otherwise legal play. The rationale for this policy is that the rules don't change at the end of a game.

Both rationales are legitimate, though obviously the policies are incompatible and neither finds support in the rule book. The best approach would be to consult your local association, find or establish an association policy for games in your area, and follow that policy.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Clearly we have 2 schools of thought here:

1. Facilitate a smooth and injury-free end of the game by publicizing A's intention to take a knee, and penalize A if they fail to follow through. The rationale for this policy is game management and player safety.

2. Never tell players what to do or put a team in a position where it cannot execute an otherwise legal play. The rationale for this policy is that the rules don't change at the end of a game.

Both rationales are legitimate, though obviously the policies are incompatible and neither finds support in the rule book. The best approach would be to consult your local association, find or establish an association policy for games in your area, and follow that policy.

Just out of curiosity --- in what way is #2 not supported in the rule book? And a note - you are implying that if you use #2 you are failing to facilitate an injury-free end of game. I don't believe that to be true. If offense actually does take a knee, and we've either done nothing or said, "If they take a knee, nothing after the whistle!!" or somesuch - I don't think there's a very strong chance for an injury. I would say the opposite is more likely. Tell the defense to relax, and when offense runs a play, you've got 4 defenseless DL's on their backs.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Just out of curiosity --- in what way is #2 not supported in the rule book?

Well, um, the rule book (or the manual) doesn't say to do it this way. I'm not saying that they both violate the book, just that the book doesn't decide between them.

Look, all I'm saying is that they're both very common ways to handle the end of a game. I suspect that #2 is more common the higher one works.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Well, um, the rule book (or the manual) doesn't say to do it this way. I'm not saying that they both violate the book, just that the book doesn't decide between them.

Look, all I'm saying is that they're both very common ways to handle the end of a game. I suspect that #2 is more common the higher one works.

Wasn't really arguing with you - you and I usually see eye to eye. I think number 2 is completely supported by the rulebook. If the rulesmakers wanted us to behave differently at the end of the game vs the rest of the game, they would say so. The rules apply to the entire game, otherwise they are worthless.

I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Wasn't really arguing with you - you and I usually see eye to eye. I think number 2 is completely supported by the rulebook. If the rulesmakers wanted us to behave differently at the end of the game vs the rest of the game, they would say so. The rules apply to the entire game, otherwise they are worthless.

I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph.

Everything is not about the rules makers. The rules makers are not the ones that hire us or give interpretations for each state. Just try to call the NF and they will tell you to direct all rules questions to your state. And what we do for example is not about the rules makers, it is about what is custom and expected where we are when the game is clearly over.

Peace

[bigjohn]

Rule 1-1-6 Covers this nicely I believe!

ART. 6 . . . The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good
sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules. The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.

The fake kneel down is not covered specifically in the rule book but it stinks of Wrong ball and Where's the Tee? They are both types of deception that is disallowed as is hidden ball if you must have a live ball one to hang your hat on!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Rule 1-1-6 Covers this nicely I believe!

ART. 6 . . . The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good
sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules. The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.

The fake kneel down is not covered specifically in the rule book but it stinks of Wrong ball and Where's the Tee? They are both types of deception that is disallowed as is hidden ball if you must have a live ball one to hang your hat on!

1-1-6 is not in there to tell us to invent rules, or to officiate differently in one part of the game as opposed to the rest of the game.

1-1-6 is baseball's rule 10-1-C. What if a helicopter lands on the field during a live ball (or a Chick Fil A Cow)? What if an earthquake occurs during a play. What if a buffalo runs onto the field during a live ball? The TRULY unforeseeable instance.

The fake kneel down is not covered... neither is yelling Pitch Right and throwing a bomb. Both are legal. (Incidentally, Wrong Ball and Where's the Tee ARE covered by the rules).

Shutting these down is imposing your own sense of sportsmanship on the game where it is not appropriate. (And honestly, the scenario of the muffed snap where you've told the defense to relax is a FAR more common problem with the philosophy of telling the defense not to be ready or not to hit anyone).

[whitehat]

Each crew/association will use their best judgment as to how to handle this. Its not something we should get too dogmatic about.

Careful friends...lest our tone becomes counterproductive to learning...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Each crew/association will use their best judgment as to how to handle this. Its not something we should get too dogmatic about.

Careful friends...lest our tone becomes counterproductive to learning...

Yep or +1

Peace

[jemiller]

The offensive QB tells us, and we inform the opposing team. I actually position myself very close to the LOS to prevent any issues. They have to make an accurate and complete snap, but once it is done the QB goes to the knee and the play is over. JIM