Taking A Knee

[asdf]

Originally Posted by kdf5

And if you've done your job correctly in the other 47 minutes, which I know is impossible for you, then you shouldn't have to be doing something you haven't done all game long, which is trying to rein in the game when it's too late and letting the other team know what's about to happen.

I did not realize that I was conversing with an official that has knows when, where and how a fight is going to break out. You should write a book, because you have all the answers.

While I take the time do do some preventative officiating, you keep spotting the ball two inches outside of the 10 yard line on a long gain....

Because after all, that's what the rule says.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not really sure what you're saying here... are you implying that in a chippy 56-6 game, suddenly the team up by 50 is unable to block on a kneel down play? PF or USC would still be PF or USC - our "warning" notwithstanding.

Please expalin to me how many times on TV in either the pros or in a college game you see teams actively blocking or defending a no brainer kneel down at the end of the game?

You don't see it , and you won't see it.

And the reason being is the guys, you are a helluva lot better than we'll ever be, are telling them that "it's a knee".

The players know what to do when they hear that.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by asdf

I did not realize that I was conversing with an official that has knows when, where and how a fight is going to break out. You should write a book, because you have all the answers.

While I take the time do do some preventative officiating, you keep spotting the ball two inches outside of the 10 yard line on a long gain....

Because after all, that's what the rule says.

What I know that you don't is that preventative officiating starts at the initial kickoff, not the last 35 seconds of the game like you think. I also know English..... "that has knows when".... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is that?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

If you are not smart enough to know the difference between a 56-6 "knee" and a 17-14 "knee", then you would take it personal.

Telling me I have work to do is personal. Saying I'm not smart enough is personal.

Despite the fact that two of us who REALLY don't like each other are on different sides of this, the thread had avoided name calling until you chose to pipe in. I assure you that I'm smart enough to know the difference. I also assure you that even at 56-6, I'm not going to tell the players how to play or what to do. ALL I would do is what I described - which, to me, has NEVER backfired on me. However, on at least 2 occasions, taking your advice would have.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

Please expalin to me how many times on TV in either the pros or in a college game you see teams actively blocking or defending a no brainer kneel down at the end of the game?

You don't see it , and you won't see it.

And the reason being is the guys, you are a helluva lot better than we'll ever be, are telling them that "it's a knee".

The players know what to do when they hear that.

I know for a fact you are dead wrong. Those players know what's coming, and on MOST occasions don't actively block or defend because they know there's a FAR lower chance of any of the things we've mentioned happening. I PROMISE you there are no college officials or NFL officials telling anyone on the field that the offense is taking a knee. To suggest otherwise throws everything else you've ever said into doubt. You could not be more wrong. (And, on this rare occasion, I suspect even JR will agree with me)

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by asdf

Preventative Officiating

If the game's been chippy and the you know that's it's a kneel down situation, yet you let the above happen without some prior notification..... then you should be relegated to working 2nd grade ball in a two-man system.

Do you do that with each guy on a wing? Or do you go ref/umpire?

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I know for a fact you are dead wrong. Those players know what's coming, and on MOST occasions don't actively block or defend because they know there's a FAR lower chance of any of the things we've mentioned happening. I PROMISE you there are no college officials or NFL officials telling anyone on the field that the offense is taking a knee. To suggest otherwise throws everything else you've ever said into doubt. You could not be more wrong. (And, on this rare occasion, I suspect even JR will agree with me)

I agree. We had this exact same thing happen last night in a JV game. I was running umpire, team a came up in victory formation, I said nothing. B shot the gap, creamed the QB after his knee was down, we flagged him for a PF, marked off 15. Everybody must have got the message, because the next 2 snaps were clean, game over, band played, cheerleaders cheered, and we all went home.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I agree. We had this exact same thing happen last night in a JV game. I was running umpire, team a came up in victory formation, I said nothing. B shot the gap, creamed the QB after his knee was down, we flagged him for a PF, marked off 15. Everybody must have got the message, because the next 2 snaps were clean, game over, band played, cheerleaders cheered, and we all went home.

Holy crap!! You mean the officials weren't involved in the game until they needed to be? What a concept!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

Do you do that with each guy on a wing? Or do you go ref/umpire?

I know you're kidding, but I've seen both, and hybrids. Personally, the kiddo league I do runs a HL and a R/LJ. Ref counts and makes sure they are set correctly (they have bizarro rules about where the defenders have to start), then starts cheating toward his sideline, watching for initial interior holding and then acting like LJ the rest of the play (HL responsible for LOS infractions all the way across). Worked one very long day with R and U - too much running. HL and LJ, I bet EVERYONE was holding in the middle... I'll never know from there.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I know you're kidding, but I've seen both, and hybrids. Personally, the kiddo league I do runs a HL and a R/LJ. Ref counts and makes sure they are set correctly (they have bizarro rules about where the defenders have to start), then starts cheating toward his sideline, watching for initial interior holding and then acting like LJ the rest of the play (HL responsible for LOS infractions all the way across). Worked one very long day with R and U - too much running. HL and LJ, I bet EVERYONE was holding in the middle... I'll never know from there.

I did a JV game once by myself. No one else showed up. It was the best game I was ever involved in from the standpoint of sportsmanship. Early in the game there was either a false start or an encroachment. I told them that I had no clue. They all laughed and we had a do-over. They didn't make a peep and played hard and clean and shagged balls for me and helped each other off the ground. I'm glad it happened. Those kids were more polite and had more fun and it was a cleaner game than I've ever seen.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kdf5

I did a JV game once by myself. No one else showed up. It was the best game I was ever involved in from the standpoint of sportsmanship. Early in the game there was either a false start or an encroachment. I told them that I had no clue. They all laughed and we had a do-over. They didn't make a peep and played hard and clean and shagged balls for me and helped each other off the ground. I'm glad it happened. Those kids were more polite and had more fun and it was a cleaner game than I've ever seen.

Sounds almost like what we had to do when we were kids, playing in a neighbor's yard, with zero officials.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I agree. We had this exact same thing happen last night in a JV game. I was running umpire, team a came up in victory formation, I said nothing. B shot the gap, creamed the QB after his knee was down, we flagged him for a PF, marked off 15. Everybody must have got the message, because the next 2 snaps were clean, game over, band played, cheerleaders cheered, and we all went home.

The philosophy around these parts is when the offense lets us know they intend to take a knee, we let the defense know as well. Then it's clear to everyone and we avoid the chance of a QB being injured when B is clueless and shoots the gap to cream him just after his knee is down.

[JasonTX]

Why even let them take the snap and "kneel down"? If some of you are telling the defense to back off and forcing the offense to stick to their original play call, it seems to me a waste of time to even snap it. Just hold the ball in the air and declare the game over because that is essentially what is taking place when you are telling teams not to play any more.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(Incidentally, Wrong Ball and Where's the Tee ARE covered by the rules).

Actually, only "Where's the tee?" is covered in the Case Book. It's covered under Unfair Acts. That rule says the referee can assess whatever penalty he feels equitable.

Officials, evdiently you included, use the same principle to cover the "Wrong ball" play.

So the coach yells, "We're taking a knee," and doesn't.

Please tell me how that's different than yelling "Where's the tee?" or "This isn't our ball!"

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I agree. We had this exact same thing happen last night in a JV game. I was running umpire, team a came up in victory formation, I said nothing. B shot the gap, creamed the QB after his knee was down, we flagged him for a PF, marked off 15. Everybody must have got the message, because the next 2 snaps were clean, game over, band played, cheerleaders cheered, and we all went home.

And just think, had you said, "Be smart guys, if he takes a knee, don't hit him," you could have used a little preventive officiating and prevented a foul where a kid could have been injured for no reason.