Taking A Knee

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

When Team A tells me that they are taking a knee, I tell Team A that they still have to block and Team B to stop on the whistle. I don't want a situation where A bobbles the snap and Team B would have had a chance to regain possession, but we told them to play differently.

I agree this is good. I usually don't say anything and I officiate the "kneel down" just like any other play. It is not our job to get involved with a play call because no matter what play is called at the line, the offense has every right to audible to another play.

For those others who get involved and shut it down. What do you do if the offense calls, "pitch right"? The defense hears it and aligns their formation to cover the run. The offense snaps and throw a deep pass for a TD. Anybody shutting that down for deceiving the defense into thinking it was going to be a run. Lesson for the defense. Don't listen to the play calling and be ready to go 100% on each play.

I had a game once where it was a "kneel down" call, but the snap was muffed. Luckily for the defense they were firing out at the snap and recovered the ball. Next play they scored the game winning TD. Imagine if I would have intervened and told them not to play.

[bigjohn]

Rule 1-1-6 Covers this nicely I believe!

ART. 6 . . . The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good
sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules. The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.

The fake kneel down is not covered specifically in the rule book but it stinks of Wrong ball and Where's the Tee? They are both types of deception that is disallowed as is hidden ball if you must have a live ball one to hang your hat on!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Rule 1-1-6 Covers this nicely I believe!

ART. 6 . . . The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good
sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules. The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.

The fake kneel down is not covered specifically in the rule book but it stinks of Wrong ball and Where's the Tee? They are both types of deception that is disallowed as is hidden ball if you must have a live ball one to hang your hat on!

1-1-6 is not in there to tell us to invent rules, or to officiate differently in one part of the game as opposed to the rest of the game.

1-1-6 is baseball's rule 10-1-C. What if a helicopter lands on the field during a live ball (or a Chick Fil A Cow)? What if an earthquake occurs during a play. What if a buffalo runs onto the field during a live ball? The TRULY unforeseeable instance.

The fake kneel down is not covered... neither is yelling Pitch Right and throwing a bomb. Both are legal. (Incidentally, Wrong Ball and Where's the Tee ARE covered by the rules).

Shutting these down is imposing your own sense of sportsmanship on the game where it is not appropriate. (And honestly, the scenario of the muffed snap where you've told the defense to relax is a FAR more common problem with the philosophy of telling the defense not to be ready or not to hit anyone).

[asdf]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

NEVER tell the defense what to do. Go into EVERY kneeling situation as if the offense is going to fake it. This might only happen to you once in a lifetime, or never, but if you aren't ready and/or you've told the defense what to do, then any fallout is your fault.

AT MOST - tell them something like, "If they take a knee, no nonsense." Or "Don't hit anyone after the whistle, boys." AT MOST.

At youth ball, you might want to be more specific, but unless the league has a sportsmanship rule forbidding fake knee-plays, you better preface your warning with IF.

"Never" and "Every" ???

When's the last time you saw a 56-6 game end with the offense taking a knee and the defense going balls out to make the tackle?

You don't see it because the officials told the guys that "they are taking a knee."

When the situation calls for the announcement, announce it.

If you don't know if the siutation calls for it, then you have a lot of work to do.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by asdf

"Never" and "Every" ???

When's the last time you saw a 56-6 game end with the offense taking a knee and the defense going balls out to make the tackle?

You don't because the officials told the guys that "they are taking a knee."

When the situation calls for the announcement, announce it.

If you don't know if the siutation calls for it, then you have a lot of work to do.

It's not our job to tell players what to do or to help coach. It's our job to apply the rules. If a team fakes a kneel down that is not our responsibility nor our fault and if a kid hauls off and whacks someone or otherwise does something wrong or flagrant THEN we go into action.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by kdf5

It's not our job to tell players what to do or to help coach. It's our job to apply the rules. If a team fakes a kneel down that is not our responsibility nor our fault and if a kid hauls off and whacks someone or otherwise does something wrong or flagrant THEN we go into action.

Preventative Officiating

If the game's been chippy and the you know that's it's a kneel down situation, yet you let the above happen without some prior notification..... then you should be relegated to working 2nd grade ball in a two-man system.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by asdf

Preventative Officiating

If the game's been chippy and the you know that's it's a kneel down situation, yet you let the above happen without some prior notification..... then you should be relegated to working 2nd grade ball in a two-man system.

And if you've done your job correctly in the other 47 minutes, which I know is impossible for you, then you shouldn't have to be doing something you haven't done all game long, which is trying to rein in the game when it's too late and letting the other team know what's about to happen.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

When's the last time you saw a 56-6 game end with the offense taking a knee and the defense going balls out to make the tackle?

At most, we should simply say, "If they take a knee, take it easy" I grant you that 56-6 is likely a lot more relaxed than the other situations described, but we, as officials should be ready. Heck, it might not be a "Fake", but might inadvertently develop into a play after a screwed up snap.

If you don't know if the siutation calls for it, then you have a lot of work to do.

Is there a reason to get personal here?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

Preventative Officiating

If the game's been chippy and the you know that's it's a kneel down situation, yet you let the above happen without some prior notification..... then you should be relegated to working 2nd grade ball in a two-man system.

Not really sure what you're saying here... are you implying that in a chippy 56-6 game, suddenly the team up by 50 is unable to block on a kneel down play? PF or USC would still be PF or USC - our "warning" notwithstanding.

[GBFBUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

NEVER tell the defense what to do. Go into EVERY kneeling situation as if the offense is going to fake it. This might only happen to you once in a lifetime, or never, but if you aren't ready and/or you've told the defense what to do, then any fallout is your fault.

AT MOST - tell them something like, "If they take a knee, no nonsense." Or "Don't hit anyone after the whistle, boys." AT MOST.

At youth ball, you might want to be more specific, but unless the league has a sportsmanship rule forbidding fake knee-plays, you better preface your warning with IF.

This is what I do as umpire..... I'll add a "play smart men"

[JRutledge]

Again, if you do not do this in your area fine. We do it in ours and it is expected by coaches. So everyone is on board and it works for us. How the game is chippy or not is not the issue. We do it with great success and when we haven't done this and things happen it was expected.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, if you do not do this in your area fine. We do it in ours and it is expected by coaches. So everyone is on board and it works for us. How the game is chippy or not is not the issue. We do it with great success and when we haven't done this and things happen it was expected.

Peace

How are you told to handle when the snap is botched?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

How are you told to handle when the snap is botched?

We tell them to keep playing football. All we tell them they are taking a knee, we do not tell them to stop playing football.

Peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

This is an annual topic.

Some say nothing, some find a way to penalize A, some shut it down anyway, some say "be smart, be cool, if he takes a knee don't hit him, etc."

Then we argue about it.

We only argue because there's a faction that refuses to admit their wrong!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

At most, we should simply say, "If they take a knee, take it easy" I grant you that 56-6 is likely a lot more relaxed than the other situations described, but we, as officials should be ready. Heck, it might not be a "Fake", but might inadvertently develop into a play after a screwed up snap.
Is there a reason to get personal here?

If you are not smart enough to know the difference between a 56-6 "knee" and a 17-14 "knee", then you would take it personal.