Fair Catch or not?

[MRH]

R1 is preparing to catch a scrimmage kick in flight by K. K1 begins his charge to contact R1. In the brief moment before the catch R1 signals for a fair catch, makes the catch and is then contacted by K1. Since the fair catch signal was given after K1 began his charge does a personal foul occur?

In other words, is there any such thing as a fair catch signal being given too late?

I'm not finding anything in the NFHS book to support NOT calling a foul.

Primarily looking for the NFHS ruling but would like to know NCAA as well.

[BktBallRef]

As long as he gives a legal signal before the catch, he can't be hit.

[mbyron]

Also, if K is so close that he hinders R's opportunity to catch the kick, you might have KCI, regardless of whether R signals for a fair catch.

The idea of K "beginning his charge" is not rule-book language. R is to have an unmolested opportunity to catch the kick, and -- as BBR already noted -- if he signals fair catch he is not to be hit.

By rule it is possible to signal too late, namely if the runner signals after the kick has been caught or recovered (illegal), or any R signals after the kick has been muffed or grounded (invalid). Otherwise the signal is valid.

[chymechowder]

I'm not advocating the lighting up of punt returners, but if the receiver gives a quickie, single wave a half a second before the ball gets there, and Team A contacts the receiver (non-flagrant) just after the ball gets there, then I don't see how the signaler can have post-touching protection.

"Begins his charge" isn't in the book. But I see the point. The signal needs to be given in time for Team A to see it and react in time.

[jemiller]

I think that either you have KCI or contacting R after a valid fair catch signal. One or the other if the timing was so close to the catch. JIM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I'm not advocating the lighting up of punt returners, but if the receiver gives a quickie, single wave a half a second before the ball gets there, and Team A contacts the receiver (non-flagrant) just after the ball gets there, then I don't see how the signaler can have post-touching protection.

"Begins his charge" isn't in the book. But I see the point. The signal needs to be given in time for Team A to see it and react in time.

There is no basis in the rules for this restriction on R's right to a fair catch.

[chymechowder]

Agreed. Invalid is only defined as a signal given after the catch or after the ball hits the ground.

When I said "The signal needs to be given," what I meant was that I think the signal should be given in time for Team A to recognize it and react accordingly.

If the receiver gives a late, ambiguous signal just before the catch--are you saying that you'd still flag Team A for contacting the receiver?

Again, I'm not talking about a hit that occurs a millisecond after the ball gets there. Those hits are, practically speaking, simultaneous, and should be fouls whether or not a signal is given.

But I'm talking about the plays where the receiver catches it (no signal given). A second later Team A hits him. Not a flagrant hit. Not close enough to the catch that there's KCI. A good clean "bang-pause-bang" play. Are you saying that in these cases if the receiver throws out a mini-wave as he's putting his hands up for the catch, you've got a flag for hitting a signaller?