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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 12:07am
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TE cut blocks

are the TE's allowed to cut block the DT since they (TE) are not in tackle box? I thought that only players inside (tackle to tackle) are allowed to cut block inside the box.

the reason I ask is because we play a team this week who, when they run away from the TE, will cut the DT while the G and T both pull to lead on the sweep.

thanks for any info and replies.
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 12:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIcoach View Post
I thought that only players inside (tackle to tackle) are allowed to cut block inside the box.
No such rule in Fed. Were they all positioned within 4 yds. of the ball?
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 12:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIcoach View Post
are the TE's allowed to cut block the DT since they (TE) are not in tackle box? I thought that only players inside (tackle to tackle) are allowed to cut block inside the box.

the reason I ask is because we play a team this week who, when they run away from the TE, will cut the DT while the G and T both pull to lead on the sweep.

thanks for any info and replies.
TE only needs any part of his body in FBZ to block below the waist provided the defensive tackle was also in FBZ and the ball had not yet left the zone which I would assume it had not in the play you mentioned.
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 12:46am
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I am assuming the TE is in the FBZ (yds) since the Oline is foot to foot with their splits. I am just worried about my DT's knees when he gets blindsided by the TE while trying to follow the G/T's pull.

I guess I should have searched the forum first before posting my question. After I posted I did a search and found the answer I was looking for.
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 07:53am
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First we've got to break out of the "coachese"-

There is no "tackle box" in the Fed for the blocks nor the QB. We do have the "free blocking zone".

Cut block is another coaches term. Blocking below the waist (BBW) is how we would refer to it. Some defensive coaches think that all "cut blocks" are illegal. That isn't the case.

Quote:
2-17- ART. 1 . . . The free-blocking zone is a rectangular area extending laterally 4 yards either side of the spot of the snap and 3 yards behind each line of scrimmage. A player is in the free-blocking zone when any part of his body is in the zone at the snap.
Quote:
ART. 2 . . . Blocking below the waist is permitted in the free-blocking zone when the following conditions are met:

a. All players involved in the blocking are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap.

b. The contact is in the zone.
Quote:
ART. 5 . . . The free-blocking zone disintegrates and the exception for a player to block below the waist and/or the exception for an offensive lineman to clip and/or block in the back is not to continue after the ball has left the zone.
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 07:57am
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Also the block below the waist has to be before the ball leaves the free blocking zone. So it has to happen quickly after the snap.
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 10:59am
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Also no block below the waist can be coupled with a high block (or a player being engaged with another opponent) if that low block is a delayed block. Which by definition is a chop block.

I agree there are all kinds of coach speak that coaches need to stop using when it has nothing to do with the rules. And when a TE is in the FBZ he is allowed to do anything that the others in that zone can do. But there are many teams that put their TE out of the zone, but nothing in the rule disallowing the TE from being in the zone.

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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 01:16pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Also no block below the waist can be coupled with a high block (or a player being engaged with another opponent) if that low block is a delayed block. Which by definition is a chop block.

I agree there are all kinds of coach speak that coaches need to stop using when it has nothing to do with the rules. And when a TE is in the FBZ he is allowed to do anything that the others in that zone can do. But there are many teams that put their TE out of the zone, but nothing in the rule disallowing the TE from being in the zone.

Peace
I'm a new official and was able to accompany a veteran crew to a scrimmage last weekend. One of the teams were so spread out that thier tackles were out of the FBZ. They never went low, but the ref let the coach know that they were too wide to go low. He argued and argued that it was a "tackle box". The ref finally just said I'm trying to help you out coach, if I were to see him go low in a game I would call it. I've been a youth coach for about 10 years and I thought I knew the rules, until I picked up the rule book this year to study for the test. I did get a 98% though, but no way if I did not study. I wonder what some of these coaches would get without picking up the rule book?
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 01:56pm
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Originally Posted by tomes1978 View Post
Also the block below the waist has to be before the ball leaves the free blocking zone. So it has to happen quickly after the snap.
I wouldn't make that statement, because compared to the length of time of many downs, the ball can frequently spend all or most of it in the FBZ. Better not to imply there's anything like a time limit on it.
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Old Sun Aug 22, 2010, 09:09pm
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Quote:
2-17-2-a. All players involved in the blocking are on the line of scrimmage and in the zone at the snap.
As a bit of a novice at Fed Rules (we use NCAA Rules here in the UK), should I understand 2-17-2-a to mean that both the blocker and the blockee must have been on the LOS? So an O lineman could not legally BBW a linebacker who was within the FBZ but a couple of yards off the LOS?

Is the wording of 2-17-2 different to 2-17-3 and 2-17-4 so as to allow the D linemen to BBW the O linemen in the FBZ, but the D cannot clip or BIB?
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 08:43am
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Two flakes, that is correct. Both offensive and defensive linemen may block below the waist if they meet the rest of the free blocking zone criteria. A defensive player is considered a linemen for these purposes if he is within a yard of his line of scrimmage at the snap.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 09:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
I wouldn't make that statement, because compared to the length of time of many downs, the ball can frequently spend all or most of it in the FBZ. Better not to imply there's anything like a time limit on it.
+1.

If it's a shotgun snap, the block must be immediate (no delay) in order to meet the spirit of the FBZ / rule. At least that's how it's interpreted most places.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 11:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIcoach View Post
are the TE's allowed to cut block the DT since they (TE) are not in tackle box? I thought that only players inside (tackle to tackle) are allowed to cut block inside the box.

the reason I ask is because we play a team this week who, when they run away from the TE, will cut the DT while the G and T both pull to lead on the sweep.

thanks for any info and replies.
CANADIAN RULING:

TEs are not in the CLPA. so they are not permitted to cut block.

This is also the Canadian ruling, but we also demand the the cutter is stationary at the snap.
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Old Mon Aug 23, 2010, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
I wouldn't make that statement, because compared to the length of time of many downs, the ball can frequently spend all or most of it in the FBZ. Better not to imply there's anything like a time limit on it.
3 yards is not that far - especially when you consider that the QB is likely about 4-5 feet behing the LOS. 1 step back or 2 diagonally back, and the ball is out of the zone. I'd say "quickly" is almost always right.
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Old Fri Aug 27, 2010, 02:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIcoach View Post
are the TE's allowed to cut block the DT since they (TE) are not in tackle box? I thought that only players inside (tackle to tackle) are allowed to cut block inside the box.

the reason I ask is because we play a team this week who, when they run away from the TE, will cut the DT while the G and T both pull to lead on the sweep.

thanks for any info and replies.
Interesting discussion ......in my association they intrepret the rule differently than NFHS, it is not allowed period in the shotgun because their logic is the ball has left the zone at the snap because a shotgun snap is 5-7 yards, and they defined the zone as tackle to tackle therefore the tight end can not BBW. THe area coaches were involved in the decision so they are always sure to point out the habitual offending teams in the pregame discussion with the WH.
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