Last play penalty question and enforcement

[kfo9494]

Had something similar to this the other day at a practice srimmage. And we talked about it but never felt comfortable about the answers--

Game tied and A has the ball at midfield trying to score on the last play of the game.
At the snap A only had six players on the line of scirmmage. Then as the QB is dropping back he fumbles the ball. B78 pickes the ball up and runs to the 5 yard line. During the run B32 makes an illegal block at the 15.
Of course B wanted the decline the penalty and attempt a field goal with an untimed down. They send the field goal unit on the field.
As the ref was giving the option to A, they declined the penalty for the block. This would result in NO untimed down. Now B is wanting to take the penalty so the period would be extended.

>
My question is-- What is the best way for the officials to handle this type of situation? Do you let the captains know every type of situation before excepting? Do you say, Let's find out want A wants to do first?

[Mike51]

B's decision is first, because they are the team in possession at the end of the down. They can only keep the ball by declining A's foul. If they decline, then A will surely decline and the game is over (or moves into OT) because no fouls were accepted.

Once B makes a decision, then they cannot change.

Casebook 10.2.2 Situation C addresses this type of play.

[SouthGARef]

10-2-2b states that the team last in possession, Team B, must give their option of accept/decline first. You said they declined the illegal formation penalty. 10-2-2b then states that the team not last in possession, Team A, may decline or accept the penalty of Team B. In this case, they declined.

You no longer have a double foul. There is no live ball accepted foul, so the period is ended.

Casebook play 10-2-2 SITUATION C is the binding casebook play.

I'm 99.9% positive that up to about three or four years ago this play was ruled differently. I remember seeing a casebook play that in this situation, once Team B declined the foul on Team A that there were no further options. Team A could not decline the Team B foul. That has since been changed.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

Had something similar to this the other day at a practice srimmage. And we talked about it but never felt comfortable about the answers--

Game tied and A has the ball at midfield trying to score on the last play of the game.
At the snap A only had six players on the line of scirmmage. Then as the QB is dropping back he fumbles the ball. B78 pickes the ball up and runs to the 5 yard line. During the run B32 makes an illegal block at the 15.
Of course B wanted the decline the penalty and attempt a field goal with an untimed down. They send the field goal unit on the field.
As the ref was giving the option to A, they declined the penalty for the block. This would result in NO untimed down. Now B is wanting to take the penalty so the period would be extended.

>
My question is-- What is the best way for the officials to handle this type of situation? Do you let the captains know every type of situation before excepting? Do you say, Let's find out want A wants to do first?

My Canadian Approach:

I'll preface to say that it's not my place as the Referee to lead a team towards the right choice, but I will make sure that I'm clear in my communication. If I think that I was unclear, I will re-state.

The fouls are Illegal Formation (at the snap foul) and Illegal Block (after COP). First option to Team B, since A fouled first. A will decline the B penalty, so if B really wants a chance at the ball, they will have to accept the A penalty.

The net is 5 yards in A's favour. If the 5 yards reach the line to gain, Team A 1D/10 @ B-50. If the 5 yards doesn't reach the line to gain, repeat the down @ B-50.

[kfo9494]

Thanks guys,
The problem, which has been answered, was the procedure that will be used during this situation. And with the team in possession have to accept or decline first-- clears this matter up for me.

Now the coach of B might be another problem. But as long as we get it correct.

[bisonlj]

When giving the options to B, I would probably be as thorough as possible:

If you accept A's penalty, we'll have a double foul and replay the down for A
If you decline B's penalty, you'll get the ball at the A25 (assume 10-yard illegal block) IF A accepts your penalty. If they decline your penalty, the game will be over.

You don't let A decide before B decides but you let B know the full impact of their decisions.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Interesting question. Never considered this sort of situation before.

Would it be the same rationale under NCAA Rules?

[Texas Aggie]

Putting aside that 6 on the line is no longer an NCAA foul (we'll just substitute it with 5 in the backfield, since that isn't the issue here), the NCAA ruling is pretty much the same. The way to approach this is to tell B that they have 2 ultimate choices: either there's an untimed down with A keeping the ball (offsetting fouls) or the quarter has ended (declined penalties, making what happened stand). If they want to know why, I'll explain, but no rational A coach is going to let B take an untimed offensive play when they can avoid it, thus the question of whether to accept or decline (for A) is obvious.