Distance Penalty Declined Enforcement Spot Question

[FeetBallRef]

For a loose-ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot. If "A" holds behind the basic spot on a loose-ball play, the ABO + 10 yards is applied (spot of the foul +10yards). The enforcement spot is now the ABO spot & 10 yards will be marked off from there.

If "B" refuses the "distance penalty", is the succeeding spot the basic spot or the ABO (enforcement spot)?

The rules aren't clear on this (unless I am missing something). I would think that since "B" refuses the distance penalty, they also give up the ABO enforcement spot and the succeeding spot will be the basic spot.

[boboman316]

It is my understanding that if B declines the penalty, the succeeding spot would be the end of the run.

[JugglingReferee]

Does ABO stand for Automatic Best Option?

[boboman316]

ABO - All-But-One

[JugglingReferee]

Ahh...... I thought I was pretty smart for a sec there.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by FeetBallRef

For a loose-ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot. If "A" holds behind the basic spot on a loose-ball play, the ABO + 10 yards is applied (spot of the foul +10yards). The enforcement spot is now the ABO spot & 10 yards will be marked off from there.

If "B" refuses the "distance penalty", is the succeeding spot the basic spot or the ABO (enforcement spot)?

The rules aren't clear on this (unless I am missing something). I would think that since "B" refuses the distance penalty, they also give up the ABO enforcement spot and the succeeding spot will be the basic spot.

If the penalty is declined, the succeeding spot is the spot in which the ball would have been spotted absent any fouls.
Previous spot if it were an incomplete pass, end of run if it was a completed pass.
It's not an Ala Carte choice, they either accept the penalty, which includes 10 yards behind the enforcement spot and a repeat of the down or they decline the penalty and play proceeds as if there had been no penalty.

[FeetBallRef]

CO ump, I don't think that it is a Ala Carte choice. I think when you decline the "distance penalty", you are declining the distance yardage and the ABO spot.

Another thought, the rule book uses the wording the "distance penalty" for any foul can be declined.

The enforcement philosophy is based on the fact that a team is given the advantage of the distance which is gained without assistance of a foul. It is assumed that the only foul which would give this aid is a foul by the offense behind the basic spot. Therefore, all fouls but this one, that is a foul br the offense behind the basic spot, are penalized from the basic spot unless the spot is otherwise specified by rule.

If the rule book had specified the "distance yardage" can be declined, then we could go to the ABO spot for the enforcement. Since the rule book uses "distance penalty", I assume that this includes the ABO spot and the penalty yardage.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by FeetBallRef

Another thought, the rule book uses the wording the "distance penalty" for any foul can be declined.

.

The distance penalty for any foul can be declined, however, if an ejection accompanies the foul that cannot be declined.
So when rule 10 refers to "distance penalty" it is simply separtating distance from other consequences.
So in all cases you either accept or decline the "distance" consequences of a foul. A team cannot decline the "distance" penalty while accepting the enforcement spot as the succeeding spot.
It's all or nothing.

[FeetBallRef]

If we don't allow the previous spot when "B" declines the "distance penalty", "A" can get an advantage from their penalty.

"A" is kicking a field goal from "B"'s 6 yard line on the right inbounds line. "A" makes the field goal but holds in "B"'s 10 yard line. Since "A" made the field goal, "B" will want a re-kick (accept the penalty). So when "B" declines the "distance penalty" to cut down the angle of the kick, if we move the ball back to the previous (basic) spot, "A" hasn't gained an advantage for their penalty.

If we move it to the ABO spot, "A" has gained an advantage for their foul. The ABO was designed to eliminate "A" gaining an advantage for their penalty.

If the ABO spot for enforcement was designed to prevent "A" from gaining an advantage for their foul, we shouldn't allow the ABO spot to give "A" an advantage when "B" declines the "distance penalty".

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by FeetBallRef

If we don't allow the previous spot when "B" declines the "distance penalty", "A" can get an advantage from their penalty.

"A" is kicking a field goal from "B"'s 6 yard line on the right inbounds line. "A" makes the field goal but holds in "B"'s 10 yard line. Since "A" made the field goal, "B" will want a re-kick (accept the penalty). So when "B" declines the "distance penalty" to cut down the angle of the kick, if we move the ball back to the previous (basic) spot, "A" hasn't gained an advantage for their penalty.

If we move it to the ABO spot, "A" has gained an advantage for their foul. The ABO was designed to eliminate "A" gaining an advantage for their penalty.

If the ABO spot for enforcement was designed to prevent "A" from gaining an advantage for their foul, we shouldn't allow the ABO spot to give "A" an advantage when "B" declines the "distance penalty".

You CANNOT accept a penalty and decline the "distance" which goes with the penalty


You're confusing me with your lingo

There is no ABO spot.
ABO is an exception to the basic spot rule.
Relative to penalty enforcement you have 2 pertinent spots

Enforcement spot-The spot from where a penalty will be enforced if accepted.

Succeeding Spot-The spot from where the ball would next be snapped had a foul not occurred.

If a team accepts a penalty, the distance is measured off from the enforcement spot.
If a team declines a penalty the ball is spotted at the succeeding spot (The spot from where the ball would be had no foul occurred)

As I said before, when you accept the penalty, you accept the enforcement spot plus the prescribed distance for the penalty. You can't have one without the other.
When you decline we play on as if there had been no foul.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by CO ump

You CANNOT accept a penalty and decline the "distance" which goes with the penalty...As I said before, when you accept the penalty, you accept the enforcement spot plus the prescribed distance for the penalty. You can't have one without the other.
When you decline we play on as if there had been no foul.

REPLY: In NCAA rules, you're correct, but you're not correct under Federation rules. In Federation rules, the offended team is most certainly allowed to accept the penalty but not have the yardage assessed. Take a look at Case Book play 10.1.1 Situation B. Yardage is the only element of a penalty that a team is allowed to decline separately. Replay of a down, loss of down, automatic first down are other elements of a penalty that cannot be declined without declining the whole penalty.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: In NCAA rules, you're correct, but you're not correct under Federation rules. In Federation rules, the offended team is most certainly allowed to accept the penalty but not have the yardage assessed. Take a look at Case Book play 10.1.1 Situation B. Yardage is the only element of a penalty that a team is allowed to decline separately. Replay of a down, loss of down, automatic first down are other elements of a penalty that cannot be declined without declining the whole penalty.

Bob,

I don't have my case book with me, but I may be eating crow on this one.

I have never offered a penalty less distance nor have I had it requested.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by CO ump

...I have never offered a penalty less distance nor have I had it requested.

REPLY: ...and you probably never will. However, it is allowed by a sentence within NF 10-1-1: "The distance penalty for any foul may be declined. "

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: ...and you probably never will. However, it is allowed by a sentence within NF 10-1-1: "The distance penalty for any foul may be declined. "

My apologies.

I was 100% SURE I was right. Good thing it never came up.
I dang sure would of sold it hard though

[Jim D]

4th & goal from the 3. K kicks from the middle of the field and makes it but the right end holds at the 5 over by the right hash mark. R accepts the penalty but declines the distance. Do we have 4th & goal from the 5 at the right hash?