federation penalty enforcement question

[sloth]

I've had this one rattling around my head for a few days now and haven't been able to find the applicable rule in the federation book or example in the case book.

2nd and ten on the 50. A throws and incomplete pass and after the play B commits a dead ball personal foul (late hit). A then retaliates with another dead ball personal foul. None of the hits constitute an ejection, but I'm having trouble on the enforcement. Since we are not inside the 30's the distances will cancel out (but I am aware technically DB fouls can't off-set), but will it be 1st and ten on the 50, or 1st and 25 on the 50? I know that the fouls are assesed in the order in which they occured, but does the distance that A gained because of the fist DBPF give them a first down? If so do you set the sticks and they asses their penalty or asses the second DBPF and then set the sticks?

This brings up another question, after a first down has been gained; how do you distinguish if a foul on A will back them up to a first and more then ten, or allow for the first down to be awarded and then mark off the penalty before setting the chains.

IF someone can point me to the page in the federation rule or case books, I'd really appreciate it.

Jim

Originally posted by sloth
2nd and ten on the 50. A throws and incomplete pass and after the play B commits a dead ball personal foul (late hit). A then retaliates with another dead ball personal foul. None of the hits constitute an ejection, but I'm having trouble on the enforcement. Since we are not inside the 30's the distances will cancel out (but I am aware technically DB fouls can't off-set), but will it be 1st and ten on the 50, or 1st and 25 on the 50? I know that the fouls are assesed in the order in which they occured, but does the distance that A gained because of the fist DBPF give them a first down? If so do you set the sticks and they asses their penalty or asses the second DBPF and then set the sticks?

You are right that the distances cancel out but you walk them off like you said. And in the order they happened. Because both DB fouls happened before the RFP you will have a !st 10 @ 50. That is the key you are missing. If A had a PF after you set the chains and blow the RFP then you would have your 1st and 25....

This brings up another question, after a first down has been gained; how do you distinguish if a foul on A will back them up to a first and more then ten, or allow for the first down to be awarded and then mark off the penalty before setting the chains.

IF someone can point me to the page in the federation rule or case books, I'd really appreciate it.

Jim

Jim,
I have to look it up to give you the Rule Book numbers but I wanted to post this back to you first....

Originally posted by sloth

This brings up another question, after a first down has been gained; how do you distinguish if a foul on A will back them up to a first and more then ten, or allow for the first down to be awarded and then mark off the penalty before setting the chains.

IF someone can point me to the page in the federation rule or case books, I'd really appreciate it.

Jim

Here it is: Rule 5-3-1 Pg 47

SECTION 3 THE LINE TO GAIN AND MEASUREMENTS
ART. 1 . . . The line to gain is 10 yards in advance of the ball's foremost point when a new series of downs is awarded. When a new series of downs is awarded, the penalties for all fouls (including nonplayer and unsportsmanlike) committed prior to the ready-for-play signal shall be administered before the line to gain is established. The line to gain then remains fixed until the series ends and a new line to gain is established.

[Theisey]

NF: See if case book play 10.2.4 Sit C helps you out. I think it will.

[sloth]

Thanks for the references...the case book reference was exactly what I was looking to find.

Jim