Ariz/GB fumble

[SamG]

Sorry guys, looking for another explanation...

For those of you who haven't seen it, in OT, Arizona is sacking QB Rodgers when he drops the ball, it bounces off his foot and into the hands of an Arizona LB who runs it in for a TD. Game over.

What I don't understand is the DL who was sacking the QB was with out a doubt grabbing the QBs face mask. Here's a picture... http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn..._dc=1263188945. Video: YouTube - Aaron Rodgers Fumble NFC Wildcard Game HD

So my question(s)...
1) Aside from an official not seeing it (I saw it from different angles during replays), any reason why this wouldn't be a flag?
2) If there was a facemask penalty, I assume GB gets the ball back (no turnover), +15 yards, 1st & 10?

Thanks

[cmathews]

Yes he is grabbing the mask. In order for there to be a penalty he has to twist and or turn the mask. After the intitial contact with the face mask Rodger'd doesnt' move at all....so no there isn't a penalty here. Especially with the care that NFL R's take in protecting the QB and the R has a great look at it. There just isn't enough there...

[Rich]

It's a 5-yard face mask. There's no such animal in the NFL anymore.

That said, the R would have a hard time seeing that -- he's bagging the fumble and watching the ball being retrieved -- so if there was a turn of the mask it would be a stretch to assume it would've been gotten by Green, although the U may have had a flag there.

I'm glad the ball was picked in the air, otherwise it might've been a replay of the tuck rule.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by richmsn

it's a 5-yard face mask. There's no such animal in the nfl anymore.

That said, the r would have a hard time seeing that -- he's bagging the fumble and watching the ball being retrieved -- so if there was a turn of the mask it would be a stretch to assume it would've been gotten by green, although the u may have had a flag there.

i'm glad the ball was picked in the air, otherwise it might've been a replay of the tuck rule.

+1

+1

[SamG]

Thanks guys.

[chymechowder]

Can someone help me out with NFL rule?

(btw, I completely agree that there is not enough there for a 15 yard facemask.)

but I'm having another conversation with someone who's claiming that there can be no penalty (facemask or otherwise) while a fumble is loose.

I pointed out that in NCAA, you can do certain things--like block in the back or clip--in an effort to recover a loose ball. but you still can't hold, facemask, slug, etc.

problem is, I think some people have the perception that "all bets are off" when someone fumbles in the NFL.

and in fact, that's what some are telling me. but that can't be the case, right? I mean, there's no way that the NFL rules allow a player to kick another player simply because someone fumbled 30 yards downfield.

that simply makes no sense. but since I don't have an NFL rulebook, I can't be 1000% sure. little help here. thanks!

[bigjohn]

These refs will never be accused of coddling the quarterback - Shutdown Corner - NFL Blog - Yahoo! Sports

[bigjohn]

Rules Changes In: Force Out, Coin Toss Will Change - NBC Sports Blogs

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Thanks for registering, now get lost, fanboy.

PackersFTW should be here to take up the slack any time now.

[aschramm]

Something I don't think has been mentioned, but could there have also been an illegal kicking/batting call on Rodgers when the ball went loose? If you watch the youtube video posted, at around 1:36, I believe it's pretty clear that Rodgers intentionally kicked the ball while it was in the air. If anyone could give me the NFL ruling of this, it would be appreciated.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by aschramm

Something I don't think has been mentioned, but could there have also been an illegal kicking/batting call on Rodgers when the ball went loose? If you watch the youtube video posted, at around 1:36, I believe it's pretty clear that Rodgers intentionally kicked the ball while it was in the air. If anyone could give me the NFL ruling of this, it would be appreciated.

not sure of a ruling but it would most likely be declined anyway.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by cmathews

not sure of a ruling but it would most likely be declined anyway.

Correct. The only thing would have been if there were both a FM and illegal touching/batting called, the penalties would most likely offset and we'd still be at a 3rd down situation.

Only reason I bring this up, alot of Packer "fans" are all up in arms about the facemask non-call, but don't recognize that this illegal touching could have negated any gain from it anyway.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by aschramm

Something I don't think has been mentioned, but could there have also been an illegal kicking/batting call on Rodgers when the ball went loose? If you watch the youtube video posted, at around 1:36, I believe it's pretty clear that Rodgers intentionally kicked the ball while it was in the air. If anyone could give me the NFL ruling of this, it would be appreciated.

It's amazing what some people can talk themselves into believing.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by ajmc

It's amazing what some people can talk themselves into believing.

I guess I'm not really sure what I'm trying to believe???

I just thought it appeared that Rodgers kicked the ball while in the air.

[pedr]

I also thought - both in real time and then watching replays - that Rodgers kicked the ball.

What I really don't understand is why he did it. If he hadn't, the ball would almost certainly have hit the ground, and every time I saw it I've got forward pass, not fumble there. His hand was moving forwards in a passing motion when the defender pushed at the ball, diverting its path. If Rodgers lets the ball hit the ground it is (or at least should be) 4th down, and a chance to be brave and go for it, or punt away and hope for a (miraculous) stop by the Packers D. Kicking the ball seemed to have no purpose, and could have had no purpose, particularly as it's not really something he's ever trained to do!