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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 02, 2010, 12:40pm
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Rose Bowl fumble

I don't know how many of you watched the Rose Bowl, but I had a question about a call... Oregon ball, 2nd & 2 at OSU 18. Handoff never gets made, ball drops to the turf, off the RBs foot and goes forward. It crosses into the EZ and out the side of the EZ. OSU (defense) was last team to TOUCH the ball, but never gained possession (even watching the replay, possession wasn't even close).

OSU given the ball 1st & 10 at the 20.

Was OSU given the ball simply because the ball went through the EZ? What would have been the call if the ball went out on the OSU1 with neither team gaining possession?

Thanks
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Old Sat Jan 02, 2010, 01:01pm
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College uses different language than high school, but the fumble was the responsibility of the offense. The force that put the ball in the EZ was the fumble. The ball was not touched until the ball reached the EZ so anything that happens in the EZ is irrelevant as it relates to a new force (I think NCAA says impetus). Not only was the call correct, it was the only call. And even if OSU touched the ball before the ball reached the EZ, they would only be responsible for a new force if the ball had stopped or came close to stopping before the ball actually put the ball in the EZ.

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Old Sat Jan 02, 2010, 01:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamG View Post
......
Was OSU given the ball simply because the ball went through the EZ?

What would have been the call if the ball went out on the OSU1 with neither team gaining possession?

Thanks
The result of the play was a touchback as the impetus that put the ball into the EZ was the Oregon Fumble. No different than in NFHS ball.

Had the ball gone out of bounds prior to entering the EZ, then the ball would have belonged to Oregon... but not at that spot. NCAA has a forward fumble rule that would have been applied.
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Old Sat Jan 02, 2010, 07:03pm
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So if Oregon would have recovered IN the EZ, they would have gotten the ball back at the point of the fumble? Or once the ball crossed the plane as a result of the fumble is in OSU's ball regardless?

I was actually rooting for OSU, so this isn't "sour grapes". I'm just trying to understand the rule.

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Old Sat Jan 02, 2010, 07:42pm
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would have been a TD for Oregon since it was 2d down. If that happened on 4th down then it would hav egione back to the spot of fumble.
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Old Sat Jan 02, 2010, 08:54pm
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SamG: just to expand a little on what TXMike said... had it been fourth down... only the "fumbler" can recover the ball and not have the play whistled dead at that point with the ball being returned to the spot of the fumble.

It is crucial for an official to know the down, player number of who fumbled and player number of who recovered. I think the philosophy now that replay is part of the game at the big time level is to let the play end normally and sort it out afterward and/or let IR correct the result.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:32am
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Just as a point of reference, although the play discussed here is during the "Rose Bowl" which is obviously covered by NCAA rules, the "4th down fumble exception" does not exist, nor apply, to High School (NFHS) rules.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... or came close to stopping before the ball actually put the ball in the EZ.
I believe that a new impetus/force is put on a ball when the ball is completely at rest.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 03:22pm
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I saw an Illegal Batting call in one of the bowl games. The ball was loose on the ground and a defender swiped at it and batted it backwards. Good call.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 03:28pm
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Good when made however the booth decided it was not a fumble so the bat foul was wiped off.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 06:03pm
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Sorry guys, I'm confused. TXMike says since it was 2nd down, if Oregon would have recovered in the EZ, it's a TD. But I thought the offense couldn't advance a fumble.

Also, if I'm understanding you correctly, on a fumble on 4th, ONLY the player fumbling the ball could recover it. If anyone else does it goes back to where the ball was fumbled. Is that correct?

Thanks
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 09:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamG View Post
Sorry guys, I'm confused. TXMike says since it was 2nd down, if Oregon would have recovered in the EZ, it's a TD. But I thought the offense couldn't advance a fumble.

Also, if I'm understanding you correctly, on a fumble on 4th, ONLY the player fumbling the ball could recover it. If anyone else does it goes back to where the ball was fumbled. Is that correct?

Thanks
That is correct. Since this was a second down play there is no requirement for the fumbling player to recover. If the ball goes out of bounds in the field of play however, the ball comes back to the spot of the fumble and the down counts regardless of down. Since the ball went into the end zone and then out of bounds, by rules that's a TB. It's actually very clear to officials and easy to remember but common-taters and fans struggle with it.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:11pm
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the 4'th down fumble rule also applies during a TRY down.

There...now you have the rest of the story.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 11:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theisey View Post
The result of the play was a touchback as the impetus that put the ball into the EZ was the Oregon Fumble. No different than in NFHS ball.
It's different in NFHS insofar as that if the defense had muffed the ball in the field of play and it became dead in the EZ, then we'd have a safety and not a TB because a new force was applied to a grounded loose ball. I can't remember if the ball was muffed by OSU or if it was just touched, as a touch in NFHS by itself (if not considered a muff) would not have created new force.

In NCAA, a muff only adds new impetus if the ball is at rest as was mentioned before.
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Old Mon Jan 04, 2010, 01:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamG View Post
Sorry guys, I'm confused. TXMike says since it was 2nd down, if Oregon would have recovered in the EZ, it's a TD. But I thought the offense couldn't advance a fumble.

Also, if I'm understanding you correctly, on a fumble on 4th, ONLY the player fumbling the ball could recover it. If anyone else does it goes back to where the ball was fumbled. Is that correct?

Thanks
Just a fan here, but I learned this rule after seeing it come up in a game a few years back. Officials, please correct me if I mess up the wording:

On fourth down or a try, if the ball is recovered by by an offensive player other than the fumbler BEHIND the spot of the fumble (i.e. the ball is fumbled backwards), it's marked at the spot of the fumble RECOVERY.
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