Help with a High School rule

[bisonlj]

Forward progress doesn't apply if the defender hits a receiver but doesn't tackle him. It's just a hit. It would be equivalent to a running back running into the line, hitting a defender and bouncing it around the outside. You don't declare forward progress at the point of the first hit. Forward progess applies if the runner is tackled or gives up his ability to advance.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Forward progress doesn't apply if the defender hits a receiver but doesn't tackle him. It's just a hit. It would be equivalent to a running back running into the line, hitting a defender and bouncing it around the outside. You don't declare forward progress at the point of the first hit. Forward progess applies if the runner is tackled or gives up his ability to advance.

Not according to NFHS 2-15-2 (Forward Progress) "When an airborne player makes a catch, forward progress is the furthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if contacted by a defender."

Case Book 2,15,1,b (Ruling)" It is a touchdown if the covering official judges the contact by B1 is the cause of A1 coming down at the 2 yl, instead of in the EZ."

The instant the airborne receiver touches down(completing the catch) after he has secured possession beyond the goal line plane, his forward progress and possession of the ball, in his opponents end zone, is a TD, and the ball is dead. After scoring a TD there is no opportunity to advance.

[Mike L]

ajmc,

you left out the part of your case example that states the receiver is hit out of the EZ, lands, and is downed at the 2 yard line. I would say the case book is silent in regard to how to rule if the receiver maintains his feet, which is unfortunate. In every other instance of catch or run, that type of hit keeps the ball alive and progress is not awarded. Is it different when the goal-line is involved? I don't know, but lean toward it's not a TD.
NCAA rules are clear in this instance that if the receiver is hit out and downed it is a TD but if the hit does not cause him to be downed it is not.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Mike L

ajmc,

you left out the part of your case example that states the receiver is hit out of the EZ, lands, and is downed at the 2 yard line. I would say the case book is silent in regard to how to rule if the receiver maintains his feet, which is unfortunate. In every other instance of catch or run, that type of hit keeps the ball alive and progress is not awarded. Is it different when the goal-line is involved? I don't know, but lean toward it's not a TD.
NCAA rules are clear in this instance that if the receiver is hit out and downed it is a TD but if the hit does not cause him to be downed it is not.

Thanks Mike. That is exactly how I understand it at the HS level as well. I could have sworn there was a case play or rule that specifically mentioned it but I can't find it. I know this is how it has been explained at every HS clinic and association meeting I've been to where this type of play has been discussed.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Thanks Mike. That is exactly how I understand it at the HS level as well. I could have sworn there was a case play or rule that specifically mentioned it but I can't find it. I know this is how it has been explained at every HS clinic and association meeting I've been to where this type of play has been discussed.

With all due respect to "every HS clinic and association meeting" within memory, NFHS 2-15-2 does not seem ambiguous. Of course your call, is your call but the NFHS rule and associated Case book ruling seem pretty clear. NF: 8-2-1 simply advises, "Possession of a live ball in the opponent's EZ is always a TD."

Since touching the ground while, retaining possession completes the airborne catch, at the foremost point of progress, according to NF: 8-2-1, the result is "always" a TD. NF: 3-3-4-g indicates, "The clock will be stopped when: (g)
a score or touhback occurs.", so any action after the catch is completed is during a dead ball.

I can't comment on the NCAA interpretation you alude to, but it really doesn't seem to add much sense to the question, as why would any player who has already scored a TD try and repeat that which he has already accomplished? Be that as it may, NCAA rules are simply different than NFHS rules in many circumstances.

[Mike L]

I'm just not sure one way or the other. The definitions of "catch", "forward progress" and "possession" all refer to one another in a confusing way for this situation. Add to that the rule on how a TD is scored and how the runner must be held for forward progress/dead ball to occur and I think it's easy to be confused. I'm still not convinced by ajmc's arguments however and wish there was some clear cut ruling like NCAA has managed to produce.