Help with a High School rule

[goodsir]

I am not a High School Football Official. I hope the terminology I used is correct.

Under High School rules.

4th and 5 at B's 5 yard line. A1 throws a legal forward pass to A2. A2 jumps straight up and possesses a pass about a yard inside of the end zone(both the ball and A2 have broken the goal line plane). B3 makes legal contact with A2 forcing him back to the one yard line and the catch is made at the one yard line where A2 is downed. Had no contact been made with A2 he would have made the catch with the ball over the goal line. The contact by B3 made A2 come out of the end zone and when his feet came down for a catch the ball was not across the goal line and A2 is downed from that contact at the 1 yard line.

What is the ruling?

Same scenario, however A2 when knocked back stays on his feet runs back to B's 2 yard line and is downed by B4.

Thanks for any help.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by goodsir

I am not a High School Football Official. I hope the terminology I used is correct.

Under High School rules.

4th and 5 at B's 5 yard line. A1 throws a legal forward pass to A2. A2 jumps straight up and possesses a pass about a yard inside of the end zone(both the ball and A2 have broken the goal line plane). B3 makes legal contact with A2 forcing him back to the one yard line and the catch is made at the one yard line where A2 is downed. Had no contact been made with A2 he would have made the catch with the ball over the goal line. The contact by B3 made A2 come out of the end zone and when his feet came down for a catch the ball was not across the goal line and A2 is downed from that contact at the 1 yard line.

What is the ruling?

Same scenario, however A2 when knocked back stays on his feet runs back to B's 2 yard line and is downed by B4.

Thanks for any help.

Sit 1. A possesses ball in the endzone. Force by B carries A out of EZ. Touchdown.

Sit 2. Same. A possesses ball in the endzone. Force by B carries A out of EZ. Touchdown.

If A's own momentum carried him out of the EZ (no contact from B) then we play on... but as you stated the play, TD for A.

Case play 2-15-1 is almost this exact play.

[goodsir]

thanks for the first reply.

using the same idea above except the end zone is now the first down line. is forward progress marked at where he possessed the ball in the air before he is knocked back and onto the ground?

Thanks again.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by goodsir

thanks for the first reply.

using the same idea above except the end zone is now the first down line. is forward progress marked at where he possessed the ball in the air before he is knocked back and onto the ground?

Thanks again.

Yes.

Rule 2-15-2: When an airborne player makes a catch, forward progress is the furthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if he is contacted by a defender.

From the NFHS Case Book:
2.15.1 SITUATION: It is first and 10 for A at B's 12 yard line. A1 sprints near the end line and then buttonhooks. He jumps and possesses a forward pass while in the air above the end zone. a) A1's momentum carries him back into the field of play and he lands and is downed on the 1 yard line; or b) while in the air in the end zone, he is contacted by B1 and he then lands and is downed on B's 2 yard line. RULING: In a), it is A's ball first and goal at B's 1 yard line. In b) it is a touchdown if the covering official judges the contact by B1 is the cause of A1 coming down at the 2 yard line, instead of in the end zone.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by goodsir

I am not a High School Football Official. I hope the terminology I used is correct.

Under High School rules.

4th and 5 at B's 5 yard line. A1 throws a legal forward pass to A2. A2 jumps straight up and possesses a pass about a yard inside of the end zone(both the ball and A2 have broken the goal line plane). B3 makes legal contact with A2 forcing him back to the one yard line and the catch is made at the one yard line where A2 is downed. Had no contact been made with A2 he would have made the catch with the ball over the goal line. The contact by B3 made A2 come out of the end zone and when his feet came down for a catch the ball was not across the goal line and A2 is downed from that contact at the 1 yard line.

What is the ruling?

Same scenario, however A2 when knocked back stays on his feet runs back to B's 2 yard line and is downed by B4.

Thanks for any help.

The reason why A is given a TD in the first scenario is because you are awarding forward progress. Same would be true at any point on the field. In the second scenario, if he regains his feet and is now under his own power, forward progress no longer applies and he gets only what he is able to get on his next advance. As odd as it is to say, the best thing the receiver can do on this type of play is let the defender tackle him. If he gets loose, he loses the forward progress gained.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

The reason why A is given a TD in the first scenario is because you are awarding forward progress. Same would be true at any point on the field. In the second scenario, if he regains his feet and is now under his own power, forward progress no longer applies and he gets only what he is able to get on his next advance. As odd as it is to say, the best thing the receiver can do on this type of play is let the defender tackle him. If he gets loose, he loses the forward progress gained.

You are correct on the 2nd one Bison. I misspoke (mistyped).

[ajmc]

I would agree with your assessment when this type action happens on the playing field, but when possession was secured in the EZ (situation 1) as soon as he touched down while maintaining possession of the ball, it's a TD, the ball id dead and any subsequent (legal) activity by either player is immaterial.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I would agree with your assessment when this type action happens on the playing field, but when possession was secured in the EZ (situation 1) as soon as he touched down while maintaining possession of the ball, it's a TD, the ball id dead and any subsequent (legal) activity by either player is immaterial.

ajmc, so are you saying both situations are TDs? Why is it different in the EZ? I don't disagree, just trying to learn.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

ajmc, so are you saying both situations are TDs? Why is it different in the EZ? I don't disagree, just trying to learn.

It's different because any player who reaches the ball into the endzone has scored a touchdown. The touchdown can't be unscored. A player who gains a first down and voluntarily retreats loses the yards gained, but not a touchdown.
________
KinkyNdirty

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

ajmc, so are you saying both situations are TDs? Why is it different in the EZ? I don't disagree, just trying to learn.

As stated, the instant a touchdown is scored, the ball is dead and the play is over. anything that happens then, happens during a dead ball. Other than when the EZ is involved, the play remains alive, if the runner is able to advance.

When a TD is scored, there's nowhere for the runner to advance to.

[bisonlj]

If the receiver does not get tackled when pushed back into the field of play with that initial contact, you do not have forward progress so he is not awarded a TD unless he gets back into the end zone. I think there is a case play that clarifies this but i can't find it. I know I've read it in other publications and this has been discussed at many of the clinics I've attended. Am I missing something here?

[HLin NC]

If the receiver does not get tackled when pushed back into the field of play

Incorrect

Case play-

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Incorrect

Case play-

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

This play involves forward progress. If he's pushed back but that does not cause the receiver to be downed, forward progress does not apply. Just because a guy gets pushed back, if he gets free from the tackler, he doesn't get credit for the forward progress of the original hit.

[Robert Goodman]

So the defender should try to shove the airborne receiver back but not hold on to him long enough to complete the tackle? And not to shove him across the sideline in the field of play either?

We know that if the receiver is carried off the ground out of bounds by an opponent after the catch, the pass is complete. No equivalent benefit if he's carried out of the end zone and dropped?

[Ed Hickland]

When A possesses the ball in B's end zone it is a touchdown and the ball is dead. Period.