intentional grounding in end zone

[yankeesfan]

team A goes for it on 4th down deep in their own territory, quarterback A1 grounds ball in his endzone. i know it is a safety, but can B decline the penalty and take the ball at the previous spot? lets say it was 4th down from the 10 yard line.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

team A goes for it on 4th down deep in their own territory, quarterback A1 grounds ball in his endzone. i know it is a safety, but can B decline the penalty and take the ball at the previous spot? lets say it was 4th down from the 10 yard line.

You're saying that this is intentional grounding, and so would be a penalty that occurred in the endzone?

Yes, this penalty can be declined. The down would count, you'd have an incomplete pass, and it would be 1/10 for B from the previous spot.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're saying that this is intentional grounding, and so would be a penalty that occurred in the endzone?

Yes, this penalty can be declined. The down would count, you'd have an incomplete pass, and it would be 1/10 for B from the previous spot.

here is 7.5.3 according to this the spot would be the end zone, automatic safety. am i mising something?

ART. 3 . . . If the penalty for an illegal forward pass is accepted, measurement
is from the spot of such forward pass. If the offended team declines the distance
penalty, it has the choice of having the down counted at the spot of the illegal
incomplete forward pass or (if the illegal forward pass is caught or intercepted)
of having the ball put in play as determined by the action which followed the
catch.

[yankeesfan]

how about 8.5.2.c according to that it is a safety no matter what. please help

[ppaltice]

IG is a running play. As the end of the run is in A's EZ, it is a safety, regardless if the penalty is accepted or declined. (7-5-3)

[bisonlj]

This is one I struggled with at one time but I've finally accepted it's a safety wether the foul is accepted or declined. B can't get the ball turned over on downs.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

This is one I struggled with at one time but I've finally accepted it's a safety wether the foul is accepted or declined. B can't get the ball turned over on downs.

The confusing part of this may be the fact that an illegal forward pass is NOT considered a loose ball play. The succeeding spot is the spot of the pass, not the previous spot, so because both the spot where the play ended and the spot of the foul are both from A's end zone, either choice of accepting the foul or declining it produce a safety.

[bossman72]

They need to de-classify intentional grounding as an illegal forward pass.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're saying that this is intentional grounding, and so would be a penalty that occurred in the endzone?

Yes, this penalty can be declined. The down would count, you'd have an incomplete pass, and it would be 1/10 for B from the previous spot.

This is a running play. Therefore, if the penalty were declined, the ball is dead in the end zone. Safety whether declined or accepted.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bossman72

They need to de-classify intentional grounding as an illegal forward pass.

Why?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

This is a running play. Therefore, if the penalty were declined, the ball is dead in the end zone. Safety whether declined or accepted.

Thanks. I got it back when I was corrected in post 5.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by bossman72

They need to de-classify intentional grounding as an illegal forward pass.

It is not a legal pass, therefore, not a loose ball play, it is a running play. Where is the enforcement spot?

[Hand Signals]

Yankeesfan,

I know which play you are asking about and it has been determined by the state that the correct call was made. Whether the penalty was accepted or declined the result would be the same....safety. There is still plenty of dispute concerning when the call was made. There is a very grey area as to when a previous call can be reversed because there is nothing in the rules that spells it out. The rules only dictate how long a coach has to ask for a conference.

My guess would be that it has to be changed before the ball becomes live again but there is no rule that says that. But I'll bet there will be next year.

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by Hand Signals

Yankeesfan,

I know which play you are asking about and it has been determined by the state that the correct call was made. Whether the penalty was accepted or declined the result would be the same....safety. There is still plenty of dispute concerning when the call was made. There is a very grey area as to when a previous call can be reversed because there is nothing in the rules that spells it out. The rules only dictate how long a coach has to ask for a conference.

My guess would be that it has to be changed before the ball becomes live again but there is no rule that says that. But I'll bet there will be next year.

i agree 100% the right call was made.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Why?

So you can decline the ING penalty.