Intentional Grounding

Nappy · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 11, 2003, 08:23pm

You'll love this one...coach was in a hurry up and instructed his QB to spike the ball after a long sack...problem was, he did it from the shotgun. When I flagged him he went berserk. Question for you all...would you have started the clock with the ready or the snap? I won't tip you to what we did.

keystoneref · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 11, 2003, 08:29pm

I would have started the clock on the ready for play.

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 11, 2003, 09:49pm

He illegally spike the ball for the purpose of stopping the clock. Start on the ready.

Theisey · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 08:05am

Great Call.

FBullock · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 08:53am

Under NCAA rule, the spike is a legal play from shotgun, if done immediately.

nvfoa15 · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 12:32pm

If the ball was "spiked" forward it is an incomplete illegal foward pass - clock starts on the snap (3-4-3e). If the "spike" was backwards then play on.

Snake~eyes · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 12:41pm

Start clock on the RFP.

3.6.3
When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped.

nvfoa15 · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 12:50pm

Team A may leaglly stop the clock by spiking the ball after a hand-to-hand snap. Anywhere else on the field is an illegal foward pass - 5yds from the spot of the pass, LOD, clock on the snap.

James Neil · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 01:00pm

I agree that starting on the ready would be the right call, but for the life of me I cant find this in the "Book" . I first looked at NF 7-5-2d
An illegal forward pass is a foul. The illegal forward passes are:
d: A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time.

This seems to fit as far as the pass goes. Then I went to NF 3-4-3f
The clock shall start with the snap or when any free kick is touched, other than first touching by K, if the clock was stopped because:.
e: A legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete.
All this seems to indicate starting on the snap. Help me out here guys. What am I missing?

Bob M. · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil
I agree that starting on the ready would be the right call, but for the life of me I cant find this in the "Book" . I first looked at NF 7-5-2d
An illegal forward pass is a foul. The illegal forward passes are:
d: A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time.

This seems to fit as far as the pass goes. Then I went to NF 3-4-3f
The clock shall start with the snap or when any free kick is touched, other than first touching by K, if the clock was stopped because:.
e: A legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete.
All this seems to indicate starting on the snap. Help me out here guys. What am I missing?

REPLY: Jim, you're right that after an illegal forward pass, the clock starts on the snap by rule. However, what I believe the guys are saying here is that the R should invoke NF 3-6-3 since the QB illegally looked to conserve time. If it was somewhere near the end of either half, I'd agree. If there was still plenty of time left, I'd pass on 3-6-3 and start the clock on the snap.

Theisey · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 01:20pm

They are attempting to conserve time illegally.

CB page 30. 3.6.3 Situation A: (a) and (c)

nvfoa15 · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 01:27pm

I stand corrected!

STEVED21 · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 02:44pm

We had this happen in a game this year. We missed one thing. If the penalty is accepted, the team would get an untimed down if time runs out before the next play.

Our main question as to when to start the clock wsa whether this was an illeagal attempt to conserve time or an attempt to conserve time legally done incorrectly.

No matter what, A gets some advantage because you take time to administer the penalty accepted or not.

Theisey · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 12, 2003, 03:05pm

It would depend on how you explained the situation to the defense. Accepting or declining the penalty will not affect the Referee decision to invoke 3.6.3. The clock should still be started on the ready.

Like you said, acceptance of the penalty would not be a good choice for the defense.

It was not a legal way to stop the clock, so there should not have been any question as what to do. Whoever suggested it might be a legal way done incorrectly must be a lawyer or something.

jemoore · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 18, 2003, 08:26pm

Federation....

5 yards from the spot of the foul and start the clock on the snap as the "incomplete" was what caused the clock to stop.

College or pro...I have no idea.

giddyup