Counting 7 on the line

[whitehat]

Just wanting some feedback as to how your crews or associations (if they try to standardize this) have officials (probably wings) count for 7 on the LOS.

Its done different ways by different officials and I have an opinion as to what works best but wanted some feedback on what works for you and why.

[InsideTheStripe]

We expect LJ to get the offensive player count from the signal of the R. Our L should have his own count. From there we count players in the backfield to figure out how many we have on the line based on both the wings subsequent signals and the number of A players on the field.

[bossman72]

Count the backs. If you have 4 or less in the back field, you have 7 on the line. You also have to look at the R/U punch for 11. If they give you the signal for less than 11 and you have 4 in the back field, you probably do not have enough on the line.

[jaybird]

We have the H and L count the players on the line on their side of the snapper, then signal to one another their count. The total must be six as the snapper is a given.
This method allows the LOS officials to keep their main focus on the LOS to watch for pre-snap and neutral zone infractions instead of looking for the R/U who could be several yards from the LOS or looking for backs thus once again, taking the main focus off the LOS.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe

We expect LJ to get the offensive player count from the signal of the R. Our L should have his own count. From there we count players in the backfield to figure out how many we have on the line based on both the wings subsequent signals and the number of A players on the field.

That is how I was trained as well.

I believe that with the change in NCAA rules, this is also now the official NCAA and TASO mechanic but I am not sure.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That is how I was trained as well.

I believe that with the change in NCAA rules, this is also now the official NCAA and TASO mechanic but I am not sure.

big fan of the NCAA change, I am hoping that it makes its way down to the Federation, along with not bringing out the captains at Halftime.

[whitehat]

What most officials do in my experience is count the backfield players based on the signal (fist punch) of the R and U. My problem with this is that I think it puts to many variables in the equation.
First and foremost I think it takes the terminlas eyes of the line to count in the backfield. Second, it is not a guarantee that the LJ or L will see the fist punch.
A much more conistent way IMO (how I was trained in college) is to, as Jaybird comments, simply have the terminals count the players on the line on their side of the snapper making brief eye contact with each other. If 3 on your side then a touch to the cap bill, if unbalanced one way or other a fist or hand to face. This way, the terminlas can accurately count without diverting their attention to the backfield and without having to rely on the R or U punch and seeing it or not.

If terminlas count 5 in the backfield is their flag for IP (12 players) or illegal formation? they are not sure what they have they just "know" something isn't right" ...another conference, more opportunity for confusion, etc...

Too many times as an R I count 10 players and then I see no flag on the ground. I ask the terminals how many they had on the line, they say they had 4 in the backfield. Granted we have all different levels of experience as officials and the vets usually have fewer problems but it just seems that if we are counting players on the line then we should count players on the line, and not in the backfield. ..its a lot simpler and accurate that way I believe.

Those of you who count backfield players, have you ever tried counting as suggested on both sides of snapper...

Anyway, this is my .02 cents worth
thanks for your feedback.

[BktBallRef]

Get the signal from the R/U. Count the backs. Simple.

It's never presented a problem.

Doesn't the NCAA now do it the same ? 'Nuff said.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Get the signal from the R/U. Count the backs. Simple.

It's never presented a problem.

Doesn't the NCAA now do it the same ? 'Nuff said.

I didn't think there was another way.

Peace

[HLin NC]

Our accepted mechanic for now, (this battle gets fought regularly, to the point I've not-so jokingly threatened to move to BJ) is to count your side of the snapper and then signal fist straight out to the opposite wing if balanced, and if unbalanced, the fist held against the shoulder (like the IS signal). We used to flash 4 or 2 fingers to your partner on unbalanced but most of us determined that in a lot of circumstances, you really can't see it without really peering.

Our senior HL insists that he counts 7 across each and very time and that we should too. In our association, LJ/BJ count and signal defense. HL has no count responsibilty so I try to count A and then catch R/U's signal to confirm. If I have 4 in the backfield, we're all good.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I didn't think there was another way.

The method whitehat describes is the mechanic used by all NCAA officials I've talked to or seen post.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Get the signal from the R/U. Count the backs. Simple.

It's never presented a problem.

Doesn't the NCAA now do it the same ? 'Nuff said.

Because they changed the rule. Counting 3 on each side of the snapper is even simpler and doesn't have the problems of having 4 in the backfield but 8 or 6 on the line.

You only have to count 3 players not 4. You don't have to rely on the other wing official to determine if any players you are counting are on the line. Then you confirm that the other official has 3 on his side of the snapper which is no harder than getting the count from the referee and umpire.

Overall the system is easier and you actually know how many lineman there are.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Because they changed the rule. Counting 3 on each side of the snapper is even simpler and doesn't have the problems of having 4 in the backfield but 8 or 6 on the line.

You only have to count 3 players not 4. You don't have to rely on the other wing official to determine if any players you are counting are on the line. Then you confirm that the other official has 3 on his side of the snapper which is no harder than getting the count from the referee and umpire.

Overall the system is easier and you actually know how many lineman there are.

If your system is better, then why did they change the mechanic?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If your system is better, then why did they change the mechanic?

Because the rule changed.

Now the rule says not more than 4 backs so there is no need to know how many linemen there are.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Now the rule says not more than 4 backs so there is no need to know how many linemen there are.

And previously, if you had more than 4 backs, what did you know about linmen? You knew how many linemen there were, if 11 men were on the field. So the method of counting backs was just as effective last year as it is this year.

Here endeth the lesson.