Counting Players

[Forksref]

In a 5-man crew, who counts (1) A players?; (2) B players?

[yankeesfan]

referee and umpire count offense.
backjudge and linesman count defense.

[golfdesigner]

Based on the NFHS Handbook 2004-05:
The R and U count the A Players [pages 60 & 61]; and,
LM, LJ and BJ count the B Players [pages 62 & 64].


Correction
You're right mcrowder, my oops, I read the book and it said Linesman, so I just did a brain cramp it is L, LJ and BJ for counting the B players

[Edited by golfdesigner on Oct 12th, 2005 at 03:59 PM]

[mcrowder]

Pardon my Fed ignorance... but who is the LM? Here, we have R, U, LJ, BJ, HL.

[yankeesfan]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Pardon my Fed ignorance... but who is the LM? Here, we have R, U, LJ, BJ, HL.

LM is the Linesman which is the same as the Headlinesman.

[Warrenkicker]

In the books we have R (Referee), U (Umpire), L (Linesman), LJ (Line Judge), and BJ (Back Judge).

The state calls them R, U, L, J, and B.

[MJT]

And to count them extremely quickly, count 4-4-3 as they break the huddle. I can do this before they ever get close to the LOS.

[Suudy]

Originally posted by MJT
And to count them extremely quickly, count 4-4-3 as they break the huddle. I can do this before they ever get close to the LOS.

This works great in the middle of the field (R, U, or B). What about when on the wing counting B? It's damn near impossible until the huddle breaks and they've dispersed a bit.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Suudy

This works great in the middle of the field (R, U, or B). What about when on the wing counting B? It's damn near impossible until the huddle breaks and they've dispersed a bit.

4 man crew, to count B as the LJ is tough. Get your count, and then keep track of subs going in and out and you do not need to everytime.

[mcrowder]

Gotcha.

Depending on how they lineup, I'll either count 3-3-3-2, or 5-2-2-2 (convenient for teams that go with 5 linemen in the middle, 2 wings on each side, and 2 in the backfield (QB/HB).

[MJT]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Gotcha.

Depending on how they lineup, I'll either count 3-3-3-2, or 5-2-2-2 (convenient for teams that go with 5 linemen in the middle, 2 wings on each side, and 2 in the backfield (QB/HB).

The only problem with that mcrowder is that you are not getting your count until they get to the LOS. That causes many problems. If you count 12 the 1st time, you do not have time to count again, you cannot start focusing on the QB and backs for movement, and you cannot confirm the 11 count early enough with your U. My U and I have our count done and confirmed before they get to the LOS, let alone setting up so we can focus on the other things. 4-4-3 is very quick and works very well, no matter if they break the huddle and scatter, break and stay kind of in lines, or don't huddle at all.

[Forksref]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Gotcha.

Depending on how they lineup, I'll either count 3-3-3-2, or 5-2-2-2 (convenient for teams that go with 5 linemen in the middle, 2 wings on each side, and 2 in the backfield (QB/HB).

I never got past Trig. in HS, so I do 3-3-3-2. (I hope that adds up to 11.)

[BayouUmp]

R and U count A. When at R, I'll count B while waiting for A to break huddle. Use 3-3-3-2. Can do it in a couple of seconds. I alway keep aware of subs coming in so I usually know how many are in the huddle before it breaks, but still get a count. I count them 2 times, at least. If I get > 11, I'll count again to be sure before flagging for illegal sub.


BJ and LJ are primary for counting B. HL will count when chain duty allows. It really depends on how good your chain crew is. More important to keep the chains straight than to conduct a 3rd count of B.

[Warrenkicker]

I have always used the 3-3-3-2 because when I did 8-man games it just changed to 3-3-2. When players are hiding behind each other it might take as much as three seconds to count them that way once you are used to it. And when they are separated more you can get them counted in about one second.

I have been on the wing this season for varsity games and I agree that it can be very difficult for a wing to count B. But once I have gotten more used to the rest of the presnap routine I have been able to start getting B counted as well and confirming it with BJ.

[Suudy]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
I have been on the wing this season for varsity games and I agree that it can be very difficult for a wing to count B. But once I have gotten more used to the rest of the presnap routine I have been able to start getting B counted as well and confirming it with BJ.

Speaking of pre-snap routine, I'd like to hear what everyone does pre-snap. Of course it depends on position, and since I've worked mostly HL or LJ my career, it is what I have down best. But I'd love to hear about others' positions.

When the previous down ends, I do:
1) Confirm the down with the other wing and R.

If HL...
2) a) If a new series, set the chains (after confirmation from R)
b) Otherwise, erify the down on the box (I let guy set the box)

3) Count B
4) Look at R and U to verify 11. Then check there are 4 in the backfield. Punch back if outside guy is off.
5) Watch the line for FS or encroachment
6) Spit out the whistle on the snap

Of course 3 can be difficult if HL and things are going fast (i.e. hurry-up offense). And for 4, if there are less than four in the backfield, extra checks are going through my mind (i.e. a covered receiver); more than 4 looking for an illegal formation. But overall I go through this progression every down.

Comments? Routines for R, U, and BJ?