Counting 7 on the line

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Get the signal from the R/U. Count the backs. Simple.

It's never presented a problem.

Doesn't the NCAA now do it the same ? 'Nuff said.

Because they changed the rule. Counting 3 on each side of the snapper is even simpler and doesn't have the problems of having 4 in the backfield but 8 or 6 on the line.

You only have to count 3 players not 4. You don't have to rely on the other wing official to determine if any players you are counting are on the line. Then you confirm that the other official has 3 on his side of the snapper which is no harder than getting the count from the referee and umpire.

Overall the system is easier and you actually know how many lineman there are.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Because they changed the rule. Counting 3 on each side of the snapper is even simpler and doesn't have the problems of having 4 in the backfield but 8 or 6 on the line.

You only have to count 3 players not 4. You don't have to rely on the other wing official to determine if any players you are counting are on the line. Then you confirm that the other official has 3 on his side of the snapper which is no harder than getting the count from the referee and umpire.

Overall the system is easier and you actually know how many lineman there are.

If your system is better, then why did they change the mechanic?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If your system is better, then why did they change the mechanic?

Because the rule changed.

Now the rule says not more than 4 backs so there is no need to know how many linemen there are.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Now the rule says not more than 4 backs so there is no need to know how many linemen there are.

And previously, if you had more than 4 backs, what did you know about linmen? You knew how many linemen there were, if 11 men were on the field. So the method of counting backs was just as effective last year as it is this year.

Here endeth the lesson.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

And previously, if you had more than 4 backs, what did you know about linmen? You knew how many linemen there were, if 11 men were on the field. So the method of counting backs was just as effective last year as it is this year.

Here endeth the lesson.

Yes, I understand how it works. In the end it can create problems. Counting 3 on your side of the snapper fixes the problems. Whitehat explained it earlier.

Originally Posted by whitehat

What most officials do in my experience is count the backfield players based on the signal (fist punch) of the R and U. My problem with this is that I think it puts to many variables in the equation.
First and foremost I think it takes the terminlas eyes of the line to count in the backfield. Second, it is not a guarantee that the LJ or L will see the fist punch.
A much more conistent way IMO (how I was trained in college) is to, as Jaybird comments, simply have the terminals count the players on the line on their side of the snapper making brief eye contact with each other. If 3 on your side then a touch to the cap bill, if unbalanced one way or other a fist or hand to face. This way, the terminlas can accurately count without diverting their attention to the backfield and without having to rely on the R or U punch and seeing it or not.

If terminlas count 5 in the backfield is their flag for IP (12 players) or illegal formation? they are not sure what they have they just "know" something isn't right" ...another conference, more opportunity for confusion, etc...

Too many times as an R I count 10 players and then I see no flag on the ground. I ask the terminals how many they had on the line, they say they had 4 in the backfield. Granted we have all different levels of experience as officials and the vets usually have fewer problems but it just seems that if we are counting players on the line then we should count players on the line, and not in the backfield. ..its a lot simpler and accurate that way I believe.

[bisonlj]

I have always counted the backfield and never had an issues with missing something on the LOS. When I first heard about the mechanic of counting linemen I thought they were joking. When I've tried to count the lineman, I have a hard time seeing how many players they are because they tend to blend together. Counting backs seems much easier.

[Bullycon]

In Tennessee, we count the linemen on our side of the snapper and signal to each other.

3 linemen: Fist at shoulder level.
2 linemen: Two fingers at chest.
4 linemen: Hand to face.

If your count plus the other wing's count is equal to or greater than 6, there are enough men on the line. If not, illegal formation. Both wings should have a flag.

[BAlaxer]

We count 3 on each side of the center and hold our signal until the snap. If we have illegal formation both reach for their flags and throw them at the snap. Seems to work well, as long as the guy you are working with can count to 3

[jack015]

Fifty three years ago I learned that eleven minus four equals seven. That has not changed has it ?

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by jack015

Fifty three years ago I learned that eleven minus four equals seven. That has not changed has it ?

No, but the game and mechanics have.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jaybird

No, but the game and mechanics have.

At the high school level the rules have not changed. If I am working a college game I will worry about their mechanics. Until then, I am counting 4 in the backfield to be legal and 5 or more to be illegal at a high school game. I really do not see the big deal.

Peace

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Because the rule changed.

Now the rule says not more than 4 backs so there is no need to know how many linemen there are.

Several conferences (Big XII, MWC, C-USA, Southland, LSC, etc.) just changed this year as a result of the rule change which allows a play to be legally run with only 6 on the LOS when they only have 10 on the field. It is a dumb rule that has fostered a dumb mechanic.