Penalty enforcement FED

[Durham]

How often do you call this? I ask, because many people I have talked to believe that it is either a 15 or nothing. I know the 5 is in the rule book, but I am inclined to lean towards their thinking in that in practice it is either a facemask or it is not. After all it is a rule intended to ensure the safety of players.

Thoughts!

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by Durham

How often do you call this? I ask, because many people I have talked to believe that it is either a 15 or nothing. I know the 5 is in the rule book, but I am inclined to lean towards their thinking in that in practice it is either a facemask or it is not. After all it is a rule intended to ensure the safety of players.

Thoughts!

I think the 5 yarder was added years ago to prevent the 15 yarders. If it's a facemask then call it, whether it's 5 or 15 and if you're in doubt, it's 15, I believe anyway. This ain't the NFL, it's HS and our number one concern is player safety.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by kdf5

I think the 5 yarder was added years ago to prevent the 15 yarders.

NCAA thought too many ticky-tack personal fouls were being called. A player who had a hand around a face mask then had no incentive to let go, resulting in greater danger. So the 5 yard non-PF penalty was added. Fed and NFL eventually followed suit.

This stuff goes in cycles. At the beginning of the 20th Century, a roughing the kicker foul was put in. Then after a number of years, running into the kicker was added. Eventually the latter was taken out. Then it was put back in. I've forgotten its current status in NCAA -- are there still a 5 and 15yarder for that, or did they eliminate the non-PF foul again?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

NCAA thought too many ticky-tack personal fouls were being called. A player who had a hand around a face mask then had no incentive to let go, resulting in greater danger. So the 5 yard non-PF penalty was added. Fed and NFL eventually followed suit.

This stuff goes in cycles. At the beginning of the 20th Century, a roughing the kicker foul was put in. Then after a number of years, running into the kicker was added. Eventually the latter was taken out. Then it was put back in. I've forgotten its current status in NCAA -- are there still a 5 and 15yarder for that, or did they eliminate the non-PF foul again?

NCAA still has running into the kicker/roughing the kicker. It's been that way for as long as I can remember.

[BktBallRef]

The problm with the 5 yard face mask is that too many officials call it when the 15 yarder should be called. Saw a bowl game a couple of years ago where the runner almost got his head tore off. HL called a 5 yarder. I'm glad they got rid of it. Hopefully, the NFHS will too.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The problm with the 5 yard face mask is that too many officials call it when the 15 yarder should be called.

Exactly my point. If the grab of the mask moves the head *at all*, it's 15. I'd be thrilled to go back to only having a 15 with the direction to ignore a simple grasp and release of the mask.

[stegenref]

I guess what I really want to know is...if you have a two yard gain on first down and then tack on a five yard face-mask penalty, why is it still first down? If the offense gets credit for the two yard gain, shouldn't it be second down? I've been told you have to "replay the down", but you're not replaying the down if they've gotten the credit for the two yards. Several people have told me this is true, but I have yet to get a rule / reference for it.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Durham

How often do you call this? I ask, because many people I have talked to believe that it is either a 15 or nothing. I know the 5 is in the rule book, but I am inclined to lean towards their thinking in that in practice it is either a facemask or it is not. After all it is a rule intended to ensure the safety of players.

Thoughts!

I wonder if the confusion is because the NCAA and NFL have eliminated the 5 yard foul.

Does the hand brush the face mask? No foul.
Does the hand grasp the face mask, but not pull or twist it in any way? 5 yards.
Does the hand grasp the face mask, and pull or twist it? Do you see the helmet move in any direction in any manner as a result of the face mask? 15 yards.

I think my games have had as many 5 yard fouls as 15 this year. I mostly do youth games, though. They are pretty good about immediately letting go.

[johnnyg08]

So it would be 1st and 2 yards to go? Thanks fellas...other good comments on here as well. Thanks!!