Illegal motion

[Bullycon]

Technically speaking, it was illegal motion if he was not at least five yards behind the line of scrimmage at the snap, since he was not a back when he started his motion. (7-3-7. Foul at the snap. Five yard penalty from previous spot.) It was certainly not a false start. The other receiver was not ineligible.

As bigjohn said, this is a great reason to never tell a player to move. How do you tell a player to move, and then flag him when he does? How do you not flag an obvious foul right in front of the opposing coach?

Best to avoid that dilemma altogether. During youth games, I have no reservations about giving instructions to get the players to line up correctly. By middle school, I don't have to do that. Shouldn't have to during JV, either. Tell them, "You're on," or, "You're off," and if they want to move, they can do so on their own. Then call fouls as appropriate.

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

Technically speaking, it was illegal motion if he was not at least five yards behind the line of scrimmage at the snap, since he was not a back when he started his motion. (7-3-7. Foul at the snap. Five yard penalty from previous spot.) It was certainly not a false start. The other receiver was not ineligible.

As bigjohn said, this is a great reason to never tell a player to move. How do you tell a player to move, and then flag him when he does? How do you not flag an obvious foul right in front of the opposing coach?

Best to avoid that dilemma altogether. During youth games, I have no reservations about giving instructions to get the players to line up correctly. By middle school, I don't have to do that. Shouldn't have to during JV, either. Tell them, "You're on," or, "You're off," and if they want to move, they can do so on their own. Then call fouls as appropriate.

I agree with this. Although I think in situations where you try to move a player "out of" a foul, it may be warranted.

Example: Telling a kid who lined up near the sideline before the ready to move inside the numbers. The flag is going to fly if he doesn't move, so telling him to move is giving him a chance to get legal. If doesn't get set before the snap, etc., is on him, as he was getting a flag anyway. Thoughts?

[Refsmitty]

I get real tired at the JV and V level of telling them their on or off - they should know that if I punch into backfield they are off and be able to look down the line of scrimmage to see if they are on or encroaching. Thoughts?

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

I get real tired at the JV and V level of telling them their on or off - they should know that if I punch into backfield they are off and be able to look down the line of scrimmage to see if they are on or encroaching. Thoughts?

My crew goes over this with the head coach in our pre-game meeting. We inform them that the punch into the backfield means "off the line" and anything else means "on the line" for the nearest receiver. We also explicitly mention that if a receiver asks "am I good?" we can't answer that question, because we don't know where they're supposed to be lined up.

When I was a wing (I'm an umpire now), I would respond with "yes" or "no" if the receiver explicitly asked "am I on/off?". If they just point or look at me, I don't say anything.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

My crew goes over this with the head coach in our pre-game meeting. We inform them that the punch into the backfield means "off the line" and anything else means "on the line" for the nearest receiver. We also explicitly mention that if a receiver asks "am I good?" we can't answer that question, because we don't know where they're supposed to be lined up.

When I was a wing (I'm an umpire now), I would respond with "yes" or "no" if the receiver explicitly asked "am I on/off?". If they just point or look at me, I don't say anything.

If the kid looks at me like he wants to know I tell him if he's off (with a punch) or on (with nothing). I've found those officials who are the most secretive end up with the most flags (game interrupters, IMO) for illegal formation.

If the kid doesn't look, I can't help it and will just throw a flag if needed.

[bigjohn]

What if he is in "No Man's Land"? Shouldn't you have a signal for that? Some officials will say on, off or neither. If they don't know what to do then, it is a coaching problem.

[jTheUmp]

I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to putting the receiver in the 'legal' position if they're in "No Man's Land"... that is, if they're in a position that could be conceivably on the LOS or off the LOS, then I'd consider them to be off the LOS if they're potentially covering up another eligible receiver, and on the LOS if they need to be for the formation to be legal.

Nobody likes a ticky-tack penalty, especially an illegal formation call based on someone being lined up 2 inches 'wrong'.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

What if he is in "No Man's Land"? Shouldn't you have a signal for that? Some officials will say on, off or neither. If they don't know what to do then, it is a coaching problem.

If he's in no man's land, he's where he wants to be. This is HS football and I'm not out there to show everyone how smart I am.