Delay of Game

[red]

Is delay of game a declinable penalty?

Fourth down and Team A is in punt formation on Team B's 40 yard line. Team A is fouled for delay of game. Penalty declined - Team B ball on their own 40.

[VALJ]

Any penalty can be declined - the offended team can always refuse the yardage.

More importantly, though, why would it be B's ball if the penalty is declined? It's a DB foul, so the down never started. If B declines, it's still 4th down on the B40. If they accept, it's 4th down from the B45.

Side question - if B declines the penalty, does the clock start on the ready?

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by VALJ

Any penalty can be declined - the offended team can always refuse the yardage.

More importantly, though, why would it be B's ball if the penalty is declined? It's a DB foul, so the down never started. If B declines, it's still 4th down on the B40. If they accept, it's 4th down from the B45.

Side question - if B declines the penalty, does the clock start on the ready?

Depends on if the clock was running. If the clock was running, it will start on the ready on a declined DOG. If the clock was previously stopped, it will stay stopped on a declined DOG.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

Depends on if the clock was running. If the clock was running, it will start on the ready on a declined DOG. If the clock was previously stopped, it will stay stopped on a declined DOG.

Don't forgt the exception NF: 3.4.6 provides; "When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the Referee shall order the clock started or stopped."

[VALJ]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

Depends on if the clock was running. If the clock was running, it will start on the ready on a declined DOG. If the clock was previously stopped, it will stay stopped on a declined DOG.

Thanks for clearing up the brain fart, ppal.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by red

Is delay of game a declinable penalty?

Fourth down and Team A is in punt formation on Team B's 40 yard line. Team A is fouled for delay of game. Penalty declined - Team B ball on their own 40.

AFAIK it's only in the NFL that such a penalty can't (or at least for a while couldn't) be declined, because of just such a situation as that, where a deadlock could occur, because team A wants to move back 5 yards and team B won't let them. That didn't use to happen before 1974, because team A would usually attempt a field goal. Starting in 1974, it became too risky to try many long field goals, because team R could just let the ball become dead on a miss and get the ball at the previous spot, rather than usually a touchback's being produced. Plus, the goals being moved to the end line, field position that had been fairly good for a shot at goal became iffy or worse. However, punters like Ray Guy weren't good at anything but getting maximum distance, so many teams in the NFL started giving deliberate dead ball fouls in punting situations to avoid a likely touchback.

Delay of game was favored over other dead ball fouls because there was always the chance of drawing B offside, and benefiting in an in-between distance situation, by making them wait on the line a long time. However, sometimes a long count was combined with legal shifting and questionable false starts that might result either in a penalty on team A (good for them) or on B (also good for A). But then team B started declining the penalties, and then what would happen if team A still wanted to go back 5 and just committed blatant false starts? Or just sent half the coverage team 30 yards offside before snapping? USC? Forfeit?

So, at least for a time, they made dead ball fouls automatic enforcements. I think they might've changed since then to put the onus on team A, not sure. Something was done to address the possibility of team B's returning the "favor" by themselves committing a dead ball 5 yarder before the ball could be put in play, which I actually saw happen once. But the main thing is that punting teams in the NFL eventually improved at making the ball dead by one means or another inside the opponent's 20 without the need to back themselves up.

Robert

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

AFAIK it's only in the NFL that such a penalty can't (or at least for a while couldn't) be declined, because of just such a situation as that, where a deadlock could occur, because team A wants to move back 5 yards and team B won't let them. That didn't use to happen before 1974, because team A would usually attempt a field goal. Starting in 1974, it became too risky to try many long field goals, because team R could just let the ball become dead on a miss and get the ball at the previous spot, rather than usually a touchback's being produced. Plus, the goals being moved to the end line, field position that had been fairly good for a shot at goal became iffy or worse. However, punters like Ray Guy weren't good at anything but getting maximum distance, so many teams in the NFL started giving deliberate dead ball fouls in punting situations to avoid a likely touchback.

Delay of game was favored over other dead ball fouls because there was always the chance of drawing B offside, and benefiting in an in-between distance situation, by making them wait on the line a long time. However, sometimes a long count was combined with legal shifting and questionable false starts that might result either in a penalty on team A (good for them) or on B (also good for A). But then team B started declining the penalties, and then what would happen if team A still wanted to go back 5 and just committed blatant false starts? Or just sent half the coverage team 30 yards offside before snapping? USC? Forfeit?

So, at least for a time, they made dead ball fouls automatic enforcements. I think they might've changed since then to put the onus on team A, not sure. Something was done to address the possibility of team B's returning the "favor" by themselves committing a dead ball 5 yarder before the ball could be put in play, which I actually saw happen once. But the main thing is that punting teams in the NFL eventually improved at making the ball dead by one means or another inside the opponent's 20 without the need to back themselves up.

Robert

Thank you Robert, I just wanted to know what time it is.