Experienced Backjudges?

[Rich]

[QUOTE=JRutledge;628548]

Originally Posted by stegenref

The term crack back block is only a phrase used at the NFL level to describe an illegal act. There is no such terminology at the high school level or the college level. Only lineman can block below the waist and a WR is not a lineman by definition. So there is nothing special to watch out for, this block would be obvious to almost anyone if they understand the rule. There is nothing illegal about a WR coming back to the ball and making a legal block (above the waist and on the side or in front).

Peace

A "receiver" can certainly line up on the line and in the FBZ, so the block *could* be legal.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE=RichMSN;628625]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A "receiver" can certainly line up on the line and in the FBZ, so the block *could* be legal.

Anyone can line up anywhere and block legally. But a wide receiver or back cannot line up where they are expected to be and block below the waist or block in the back or even clip unless they are on the line and in the zone. If you are saying a TE could do this, yes they could. But they would have to be awfully tight to do so.

Peace

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Anyone can line up anywhere and block legally. But a wide receiver or back cannot line up where they are expected to be and block below the waist or block in the back or even clip unless they are on the line and in the zone. If you are saying a TE could do this, yes they could. But they would have to be awfully tight to do so.

Peace

You are making it sound way more complicated than it is. You shouldn't use fan terms like WR, TE, SE, RB... All you have to think about is 1) Is the player a lineman? and 2) Is he in the FBZ?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by LDUB

You are making it sound way more complicated than it is. You shouldn't use fan terms like WR, TE, SE, RB... All you have to think about is 1) Is the player a lineman? and 2) Is he in the FBZ?

I disagree because a Wide Receiver suggests that the player is far away from the interior line just by definition. You cannot be very wide and be in the FBZ. And a "back" of any kind cannot block below the waist, clip or block in the back. I do not know how complicated it can be at this point unless you want me to quote the rule word for word to a person that might not understand all that language in the first place. The term "crack back block" is not in our code.

Peace

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree because a Wide Receiver suggests that the player is far away from the interior line just by definition.

Yes but a lot of people think that a team can line up with 3 tight ends. They assign positions to players by what is listed on the roster, not by where they line up on the field. That's how it gets confusing when you use these non-defined "fan terms".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Yes but a lot of people think that a team can line up with 3 tight ends. They assign positions to players by what is listed on the roster, not by where they line up on the field. That's how it gets confusing when you use these non-defined "fan terms".

The term Wide Receiver means they are wide on the formation. This is a pretty "vanilla" or common term. I have never heard this suggested as a "fan" term.

I really do not see why this is hard to understand. I do not think this is a roster issue, the guy was asking a rules question, not for us to classify who is on his or their roster. And if he did not understand he can ask for clarification.

Peace

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The term Wide Receiver means they are wide on the formation. This is a pretty "vanilla" or common term. I have never heard this suggested as a "fan" term.

At the snap there are only 3 defined positions for players to line up in and they are snapper, lineman, and back. Those are the only ones that matter when it comes to the rules.

You seem to be mixing up actual football definitions with words used by fans. Earlier you said a WR cannot be a lineman. I'm sure that is what John Madden would say but if the WR's shoulders are parallel to the goal line and he's breaking the snapper's waist then he is a lineman.

The point about the roster thing is that you cannot make these statements and say that ____ (undefined roster position) cannot do ________ . Sure it may be true a lot of the time but these absolutes cause problems without actually learning the real rule. You can't say that a defensive safety can't be blocked below the waist on a blitz. He may walk up and be on the line and in the FBZ at the snap. You can't say that the interior linemen for A can block below the waist. Some teams run weird formations where the snapper is 10+ yards away from the other linemen.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The term Wide Receiver means they are wide on the formation. This is a pretty "vanilla" or common term. I have never heard this suggested as a "fan" term.

I really do not see why this is hard to understand. I do not think this is a roster issue, the guy was asking a rules question, not for us to classify who is on his or their roster. And if he did not understand he can ask for clarification.

Peace

I cannot ever remember using the term "wide receiver" on the field.

[Canned Heat]

[QUOTE=JRutledge;628632]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Anyone can line up anywhere and block legally. But a wide receiver or back cannot line up where they are expected to be and block below the waist or block in the back or even clip unless they are on the line and in the zone. If you are saying a TE could do this, yes they could. But they would have to be awfully tight to do so.

Peace

That's always going to be a touchy subject...where exactly 4 yards is precisely for the definition of the zone. We've had this discussion between our crew and have come to the point where unless the center/guard/tackle gap is a tad bit wide..the TE (in HS) is probably going to get the benefit of the doubt and be considered in the zone. I've walked this off nonchalantly during gametime as an ump and more often than not, 4 yards from the ball usually gets me into TE space...at least somewhat. I'm not very tall with a big stride either. If half of his foot is even in the zone...he's considered in the zone. Any split at all and we'd have IBBW. IMHO, they should make it illegal for anyone outside the tackle slot to participate in the FBZ and that would clean up some of the clutter and confusion.