coaches box foul

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NJumpire9

Would a photographer or newspaper reporter roaming the sidelines be subject to this rule? Do you flag the hometeam, even if the "local' guy was roaming the visitors sideline or end zone? Does the responsibility lie with home management to keep them behind the 2 yd. zone the full length of the field?

The progression of penalties or warnings goes to the head coach. So if a reporter is in the box, the head coach is responsible.

Peace

[ref1986]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The progression of penalties or warnings goes to the head coach. So if a reporter is in the box, the head coach is responsible.

Peace

Nope.

See 1-2-3(g): ". . . (persons) affiliated with the team."
9-8-3: "No player, nonplayer, or coach shall be in the restricted area . . ."
2-32-1 & 2-32-10: definitions of "player" and "nonplayer."

You can (and probably should) ask game management to get anyone else out of the restricted area, but you can't flag the coach for reporters or photographers.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ref1986

Nope.

See 1-2-3(g): ". . . (persons) affiliated with the team."
9-8-3: "No player, nonplayer, or coach shall be in the restricted area . . ."
2-32-1 & 2-32-10: definitions of "player" and "nonplayer."

You can (and probably should) ask game management to get anyone else out of the restricted area, but you can't flag the coach for reporters or photographers.

If there in the restricted area, then they are affiliated with the team. And many photographers are school photographers. I am not sure what you talking about when non-players are people that are still affiliated with the team (Trainers, Athletic Directors, Booster club members) and if they are in that area, I am not asking for ID to find out for sure.

So if a coach does not want anyone in the team box, they need to make sure they are not around in the first place. Then they will not have to worry about who we think is affiliated or not.

Peace

[ref1986]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If there in the restricted area, then they are affiliated with the team. And many photographers are school photographers. I am not sure what you talking about when non-players are people that are still affiliated with the team (Trainers, Athletic Directors, Booster club members) and if they are in that area, I am not asking for ID to find out for sure.

So if a coach does not want anyone in the team box, they need to make sure they are not around in the first place. Then they will not have to worry about who we think is affiliated or not.

Peace

Ok, so how exactly does the visiting coach get the photographer for the home team's local newspaper off his sideline? By force? Can you say lawsuit?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ref1986

Ok, so how exactly does the visiting coach get the photographer for the home team's local newspaper off his sideline? By force? Can you say lawsuit?

Do not make this too complicated.

The question was what if they are in a person was in the restricted area. The restricted area is directly in the team box area. Anyone in the team box is going to be assumed they are a team member and should be. If I run into someone in that area or an official sees someone in that area, unless I have definite knowledge the warnings or penalties are going to the head coach. And if the visiting team has someone in their area that is not supposed to be there, they need to inform the officials or game management to remove individuals from that area. I have yet to see media people standing in the team box near the sideline. Maybe that is something you have seen, but I have never seen this. Now there might be non-team members outside the box and standing on the sideline, but that is not the restricted area.

And that fact that you are making a bigger issue out of this (lawsuit really??) suggest you missed the entire point of the discussion.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by ref1986

Ok, so how exactly does the visiting coach get the photographer for the home team's local newspaper off his sideline? By force? Can you say lawsuit?

This is how a discussion can digress to being extreme. I suspect, and would certainly hope, everyone is going to try and work with coaches regarding this rule revision to make it work. I don't think there is any need to alter the current sequence of gentle reminder, followed by a series of sterner reminders until there is reasonable compliance. The new rule might just make the overall interval somewhat shorter

I would expect a visitng coach to notice a photographer in the restriced area, before we might, and would want him out of that area. He might even look for assistance from a wing official if there was a problem. Obviously this would be a game management issue, but if we could be of assistance inconspicuously, we should help.

Charm is likely our best option, but if that fails I've found offering the annoying visitor a choice usually works. He can choose standing where I ask him to stand, or he can stand on the other side of whatever barrier separates the playing field from the spectators. If he's a real jerk, I'll simply stop the game until he removes himself, or game management has him removed. None of that is anything new.

The area more likely to present a photographer in the way problem is in the area of the goal line extended and around the EZ. Most will respond to a gentle reminder, but all MUST respond eventually.

[ref1986]

Originally Posted by ajmc

This is how a discussion can digress to being extreme. I suspect, and would certainly hope, everyone is going to try and work with coaches regarding this rule revision to make it work. I don't think there is any need to alter the current sequence of gentle reminder, followed by a series of sterner reminders until there is reasonable compliance. The new rule might just make the overall interval somewhat shorter

I would expect a visitng coach to notice a photographer in the restriced area, before we might, and would want him out of that area. He might even look for assistance from a wing official if there was a problem. Obviously this would be a game management issue, but if we could be of assistance inconspicuously, we should help.

Charm is likely our best option, but if that fails I've found offering the annoying visitor a choice usually works. He can choose standing where I ask him to stand, or he can stand on the other side of whatever barrier separates the playing field from the spectators. If he's a real jerk, I'll simply stop the game until he removes himself, or game management has him removed. None of that is anything new.

The area more likely to present a photographer in the way problem is in the area of the goal line extended and around the EZ. Most will respond to a gentle reminder, but all MUST respond eventually.

I agree. It's a safety issue. We can ask him to move. I've had photographers on the sideline and done that. We can ask game management to get someone off the sideline. But the one thing we cannot do is flag the head coach for someone over which he has no authority.

We were told to not throw a flag but to stop the game and let the game administator handle non players (TV people, photographers, alumni)

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

And also in NC we've been notified that if an official makes contact in the restricted area during a live ball with a coach, player, or other team personnel, we go to DEFCON 1, flag it, skip the SLW, and assess the USC to the head coach and then follow the normal progression for further sideline infractions.

That makes sense. Since it is a safety issue, the contact should be given the most severe penalty: REFCON 1

[parepat]

We have been advised in my state (OH) that the fouls will not accrue against the head coach such that if there are three fouls against three assistant coaches, the head coach would not be ejected. Is that the way the rest of you are working it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by parepat

We have been advised in my state (OH) that the fouls will not accrue against the head coach such that if there are three fouls against three assistant coaches, the head coach would not be ejected. Is that the way the rest of you are working it.

Nope and that is not what the rules say. Then again states have a right to make an interpretation of how they want things handled. And in an administrative situation they really have the right to tell their officials how to do things. But that is clearly not the way the rules are formed.

Peace

[Canned Heat]

A week ago in WI at our WIAA meeting, there was a transparency that showed examples of coaches, players, stat boys, and photographers listed as people that will not be allowed in the box. From that, and the discussion that followed, it was my understanding that the sideline team is responsible for their area.

Rich or anyone else from WI...is that what you were lead to believe..?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

A week ago in WI at our WIAA meeting, there was a transparency that showed examples of coaches, players, stat boys, and photographers listed as people that will not be allowed in the box. From that, and the discussion that followed, it was my understanding that the sideline team is responsible for their area.

Rich or anyone else from WI...is that what you were lead to believe..?

Yes, but it's pretty unenforceable if the people aren't affiliated with the team.

This is one situation where I'll simply stop and have them get back OR get removed.

[LouisianaDave]

Here in Louisiana, we were directed that coaches can be in the restricted area up until the center touches the ball, then everyone has to be out. Tomorrow are Jamborees(last preseason game) so it will be an interesting next couple of weeks.

[GBFBUmp]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

And also in NC we've been notified that if an official makes contact in the restricted area during a live ball with a coach, player, or other team personnel, we go to DEFCON 1, flag it, skip the SLW, and assess the USC to the head coach and then follow the normal progression for further sideline infractions.

This is our instruction in WI too..