Good Block or penalty?

[KWH]

In my humble opinion,
While there is arguably some attempt in both of these by the defender to make it appear they are lowering their shoulders, in both cases the defender is still leading with his helmet and arguably is using his helmet to punish an opponent.
So, in a high school or lower game I say Illegal Helmet Contact.
In a small college or higher I wopuld perhaps say, no foul.

OK, go ahead and beat me up...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KWH

In my humble opinion,
While there is arguably some attempt in both of these by the defender to make it appear they are lowering their shoulders, in both cases the defender is still leading with his helmet and arguably is using his helmet to punish an opponent.
So, in a high school or lower game I say Illegal Helmet Contact.
In a small college or higher I wopuld perhaps say, no foul.

OK, go ahead and beat me up...

It least your argument suggested wiggle room and a justification. That is not what BJ did when most of us have suggested what he has shown is arguable at best.

That being said, I will not call something that I do not see. I had a call in the State Finals where I passed on a play I was not sure about. Based on the video replay it probably was likely IHC, but I did not have the angle in 5 Person as a Back Judge. I would have guessed and never would have known unless I saw a replay. If I had 2 other officials on the sidelines then this call might have been made. But that is a better solution then, "Just call it no matter what." And no the level does not matter to me either. If I do not see it, I am not calling it.

Peace

[KWH]

...In this case I have to completly agree with Rut.

If you throw a flag on my crew, without seeing something with a "just call it no matter what" logic, you won't be on my crew.

Without reviewing every post on this thread, if BJ is advocating for "just throw it not matter what" then BJ is wrong!

[bigjohn]

I have not said that KWH, I have said that it is possible to use other criteria such as sound and reaction of the two players involved in the contact to judge helmet contact. I have also stated erring on the side of safety and calling a few more IHCs would prevent more than not calling it unless one is 100% sure. I also think it is IHC unless the blocker or tackler makes an effort to keep the helmet out of the contact.

[Canned Heat]

I ran the first couple by some senior officials as well as a few retirees, all with a boatload of years under their belts, and they think you're seeing more than there really is. Like I said, I saw what MAY have been IHC on the first one with the benefit of video editing software. Let it go.

I give you credit for persistence though.

[bigjohn]

Yeah, those older officials are always good open minded judges of IHC!

[Canned Heat]

2 of the 3 I spoke of raised 3 boys that were fortunate enough and gifted enough to play college football. Those guys have seen more football in the coaching and officiating spectrum than you and as much or more than most anyone else on this forum and are in their mid to late 50's and early 60's. One even witnessed some severe head/neck trauma some years back...that's why I got him involved specifically. Man, these old timers have really lost it. What are you, like 19?

You're not here to get direction, to get insight, or to inform and/or help anyone. You're on here to be a pain in the a$$ and start arguments.

You should approach your superiors and tell them that you could ref and coach your games all at the same time. Less expense to the progarm's checkbook but way more in terms of quality officiating, especially when you can clearly see it all...no matter what the angle or distance.

I can't wait for your next video installment: Block in The Back...or No?

Go get your big red rubber nose and catch back up with your circus act.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I have not said that KWH, I have said that it is possible to use other criteria such as sound and reaction of the two players involved in the contact to judge helmet contact.

Are you seriously suggesting that we go by the way something sounds or the "reactions of the players" to judge IHC? Rather than, you know, what we actually see with our eyes?

Is this some kind of clever/inside joke that I am not picking up on or something?

[bigjohn]

Kid gets up shaking the cobwebs and you "think" maybe it was not quite IHC.

I really do think there are too many OHC not called and too many excuses as to why they are not.

40 years of playing and coaching and studying the rules makes me a clown. OK, I get it now!

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Kid gets up shaking the cobwebs and you "think" maybe it was not quite IHC.

Sorry coach, I am not sure what you mean. Yeah, kid gets up shaking cobwebs - that doesn't tell me anything about whether there was illegal helmet contact. Kids get up looking a bit dazed for any number of reasons, right?

Are you actually suggesting that in fact we should wait until the kid gets up, realize he look a little punch drunk , then throw a flag, even if we did not see any illegal helmet contact, because the kid looks a bit dazed?

I know I am kinda of belaboring the point, but I am kind of assuming you mean something other than what you appear to be saying, hence my comment about this maybe being some kind of inside joke that I am not getting - I don't really read the forum religiously, so I might have missed something.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Kid gets up shaking the cobwebs and you "think" maybe it was not quite IHC.

I really do think there are too many OHC not called and too many excuses as to why they are not.

40 years of playing and coaching and studying the rules makes me a clown. OK, I get it now!

I'm not sure I've seen anyone disagree with your statement that "it's not called enough"...because it probably isn't. Some of us didn't think your examples didn't fit the bill as to what we believe is IHC...that's all. The fact that you are not an official yet seem more than credible enough to literally berate most of us with 10, 20, or even more years of experience because we don't see eye to eye on your examples is what got this started. I'm not sure anyone has thrown an excuse out as to why they may or may not call it either. Unless you KNOW you saw it, when and where you saw it...the flag stays put.

The 40 years of experience on the field and from the sidelines isn't what makes you the clown. The fact that you've slammed everyone here who didn't agree with your every word is. Your incredibly confrontational demeanor must pay big dividends on game day.