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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 11:52am
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Question

Alright guys,

So last night I am doing a Varsity level city league game, the kids are cahtter mouths and think they are in the NBA ( and want the calls that way) but I didn't acre much for them (except the 3 T's i called becaus ethey wouldnt shut up).

But now to my question, there was a lot of off/def run-ins which ended up with def ending up on the floor. 3 of those were called PC on one player alone that night, but there was hmmmm bout 10 other ones that neither me or my partner called either a block or charge, I didn't called them because I felt that contact was not enough for the defense to fall so i had no call. After the game though I started wondering, if i should have called a couple of them player controls or even blocks, I wasnt sure anymore why exactly I didn't call them , so I was wondering when would you guys NOT call block/charge when 1 OR 2 players end up on the floor.

Thank ya boys
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tweet
Alright guys,

So last night I am doing a Varsity level city league game, the kids are cahtter mouths and think they are in the NBA ( and want the calls that way) but I didn't acre much for them (except the 3 T's i called becaus ethey wouldnt shut up).

But now to my question, there was a lot of off/def run-ins which ended up with def ending up on the floor. 3 of those were called PC on one player alone that night, but there was hmmmm bout 10 other ones that neither me or my partner called either a block or charge, I didn't called them because I felt that contact was not enough for the defense to fall so i had no call. After the game though I started wondering, if i should have called a couple of them player controls or even blocks, I wasnt sure anymore why exactly I didn't call them , so I was wondering when would you guys NOT call block/charge when 1 OR 2 players end up on the floor.

Thank ya boys
so no girls allowed on this thresd?
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 12:02pm
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I think the only thing you can ask yourself is how did the player get on the floor? Did the player fall on their own volition? Did the player get put their by the contact of other players? Did the ball handler run into the defender? Was their LGP? Other than those things I do not know what to tell you. I was not at the game and I did not see the play. If a player flops I am more likely to either not call anything or a foul on them. Then I will tell that player that they need to stop flopping all together.

Peace
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 12:16pm
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Good Response JR..... Call what you See not what you think you Saw.

Lots of Oscars can be given out to High School V players sometimes.

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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 12:49pm
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Sorry Rainmaker didn't mean to discriminate, it just felt like most of the people on here were guys, I apologize.

But yeah I know it is hard to comment on these calls, i was just lookin for generla comments, thanks for responding guys AND girl
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 12:57pm
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If you referee the defense, you can see these plays more easily. That really is the best advice I can give you overall. If you referee the defense at least you know who caused the contact and why the players are on the floor.

Peace
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 12:58pm
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I usually call a blocking foul on these to avoid more players trying to act. You have to earn a charge in my book!
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 01:24pm
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Correct me if I’m wrong. But players flopping is a technical foul. At lease in here it is.
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 01:32pm
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I'm not so sure we're talking so much about a flop. But more about not neccessarily enough contact to call a p/c foul. That's why I usually tell me partner in pregame to call something when we have players go done (block/charge) because nothing makes us look worse and it will eliminate kids tying to steal a call.
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 01:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ref-X
Correct me if I’m wrong. But players flopping is a technical foul. At lease in here it is.
If you want to be technically right it would be. It would not make a lot of common sense if there is some contact if you ask me. I just would not go there unless there was no contact at all.

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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 01:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stripes33
I usually call a blocking foul on these to avoid more players trying to act. You have to earn a charge in my book!
I look for contact through the defender. If it's there and there is some acting to sell it, I still have the charge, but I'm going to have a word with the player about not selling it.

If there was not contact through the defender, I look for contact after the flopper hits the floor, and I'm liable to call very minimal contact a block.

In any case the player will get a stop flopping warning.
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 01:52pm
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Contact ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tweet
Alright guys,

So last night I am doing a Varsity level city league game, the kids are cahtter mouths and think they are in the NBA ( and want the calls that way) but I didn't acre much for them (except the 3 T's i called becaus ethey wouldnt shut up).

But now to my question, there was a lot of off/def run-ins which ended up with def ending up on the floor. 3 of those were called PC on one player alone that night, but there was hmmmm bout 10 other ones that neither me or my partner called either a block or charge, I didn't called them because I felt that contact was not enough for the defense to fall so i had no call. After the game though I started wondering, if i should have called a couple of them player controls or even blocks, I wasnt sure anymore why exactly I didn't call them , so I was wondering when would you guys NOT call block/charge when 1 OR 2 players end up on the floor.

Thank ya boys
If there's contact and two players end up on the floor then you usually need to call something - I know as a coach for offense or the defense I would want some type of foul called if my player was impeded.

But, the key is to watch the defensive player. If there is LGP and the contact is on the torso of the defender call the charge and give him credit for a great play.

Now, if there's some contact and neither player hits the floor, then it might have been incidental etc.,

Now if there's a flop, I'm going to probably let it go the first time and make sure the player knows that I know its a flop etc.,

Thanks
David
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 01:59pm
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Tweet-Did the coaches question any of the non-calls? It's tough to have that many situations and simply pass. Eventually a coach is going to ask why it's not a charge and then you have to tell them.... what? When I first started officiating I, in a very similar situation, stated "Coach-it's a flop and he'll probably do it again." One of those the minute it came out of my mouth I wished I could take it back deals. I typically call more blocks, and have never called a technical, when teams make my life difficult by flopping. As stated before it's a much simpler call if you are locked in on both the primary and secondary defender.
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 02:01pm
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Re: Contact ?

Quote:
Originally posted by David B
Quote:
Originally posted by Tweet
Alright guys,

So last night I am doing a Varsity level city league game, the kids are cahtter mouths and think they are in the NBA ( and want the calls that way) but I didn't acre much for them (except the 3 T's i called becaus ethey wouldnt shut up).

But now to my question, there was a lot of off/def run-ins which ended up with def ending up on the floor. 3 of those were called PC on one player alone that night, but there was hmmmm bout 10 other ones that neither me or my partner called either a block or charge, I didn't called them because I felt that contact was not enough for the defense to fall so i had no call. After the game though I started wondering, if i should have called a couple of them player controls or even blocks, I wasnt sure anymore why exactly I didn't call them , so I was wondering when would you guys NOT call block/charge when 1 OR 2 players end up on the floor.

Thank ya boys
If there's contact and two players end up on the floor then you usually need to call something - I know as a coach for offense or the defense I would want some type of foul called if my player was impeded.

But, the key is to watch the defensive player. If there is LGP and the contact is on the torso of the defender call the charge and give him credit for a great play.

Now, if there's some contact and neither player hits the floor, then it might have been incidental etc.,

Now if there's a flop, I'm going to probably let it go the first time and make sure the player knows that I know its a flop etc.,

Thanks
David
I see plenty of cases, especially with advanced players, where you can have both players on the floor without a need for a whistle.

A1 goes to the basket and their body is going diagonally away from B1. B1 in an effort to draw the charge falls straight back...following my contact through the defender...this is obviously not a charge. A1 is attempting to avoid the charge and does so with good body control, but that effort leads to an off balance landing and now we have two players on the floor.

Like with any call, we have to judge how those players ended up on the floor, and not just have a call because they are there.
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Old Wed Nov 30, 2005, 02:11pm
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Tweet,

I wasn't there so you may have got them all right. However, 10 cases where bodies hit the floor with no whistle sounds like a lot.

Going with too many non-calls can lead to a pretty rough game and things can get ugly.

Like I said, I wasn't there. While evaluatiung other officials, I have seen a lot more non-calls that should have had a whistle than the other way around.

Z
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