Good Block or penalty?

[KWH]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

If we had 11 officials maybe we could get it called, I guess.

Not if the only information they had was:
...the player who delivers the hit is dazed or someone's helmet comes off or he gets up wobbling and you are not sure that loud clack was helmet on helmet...

Restated, if the information you provided is the only information they have avaialable, it is unlikely any of the 11 officials would throw a flag.

BJ - Perhaps you should contact your local officials association and work some saturday youth games as an official.
You might just enjoy it...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by KWH

Not if the only information they had was:
...the player who delivers the hit is dazed or someone's helmet comes off or he gets up wobbling and you are not sure that loud clack was helmet on helmet...

Restated, if the information you provided is the only information they have avaialable, it is unlikely any of the 11 officials would throw a flag.

I guess we'd need 22 officials then, each watching a single player.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Kid gets up shaking the cobwebs and you "think" maybe it was not quite IHC.

I really do think there are too many OHC not called and too many excuses as to why they are not.

40 years of playing and coaching and studying the rules makes me a clown. OK, I get it now!

I'm not sure I've seen anyone disagree with your statement that "it's not called enough"...because it probably isn't. Some of us didn't think your examples didn't fit the bill as to what we believe is IHC...that's all. The fact that you are not an official yet seem more than credible enough to literally berate most of us with 10, 20, or even more years of experience because we don't see eye to eye on your examples is what got this started. I'm not sure anyone has thrown an excuse out as to why they may or may not call it either. Unless you KNOW you saw it, when and where you saw it...the flag stays put.

The 40 years of experience on the field and from the sidelines isn't what makes you the clown. The fact that you've slammed everyone here who didn't agree with your every word is. Your incredibly confrontational demeanor must pay big dividends on game day.

[bigjohn]

I do not say a word on game day unless I know there is a misapplication of the rules. I have learned that officials who are not going to call IHC are not going to call it and tell them on game night does not help the situation.
I do not try to show up officials on the field and I will not question calls during a game that are judgment calls.

I have not attacked any one person but I have proven that IHC doesn't get called very often yet I am a bad guy for saying it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I have not attacked any one person but I have proven that IHC doesn't get called very often yet I am a bad guy for saying it.

Actually you have not proven that either. Giving NCAA situations do not apply across the board and you have only shown a couple of YouTube videos that may or may not apply in the first place. I guess if I show a video of someone jumping out of a pool on the deck of the pool, I can say that everyone can do that because of what I saw? The only thing you have proven it that it is dangerous which was already well known.

Peace

[bigjohn]

So you have stats to show me that more IHCs are called in NF games?

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I do not say a word on game day unless I know there is a misapplication of the rules. I have learned that officials who are not going to call IHC are not going to call it and tell them on game night does not help the situation.
I do not try to show up officials on the field and I will not question calls during a game that are judgment calls.

I have not attacked any one person but I have proven that IHC doesn't get called very often yet I am a bad guy for saying it.

No, your problem is you've formed an opinion on how and when this type of foul should be called and despite being shown by several experienced officials how that opinion is in error you continue to stick to your opinion and berate those with snide comments who don't agree with you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

So you have stats to show me that more IHCs are called in NF games?

I can tell you are a coach. You are only worried about the number, rather than if it is properly called.

And no John I do not have any specific stats of how much it is called, just like you had no evidence this happens all the time and is not ever called (you forgot that claim didn't you). And all I ever asked for was example from your games where this happens but is never called. You have shown nothing but YouTube videos which could come from anywhere and show no more than one play. But this is what you do, say things and never back them up. I should not have expected any less.

Peace

[bigjohn]

As demonstrated with
other rules, coaches are more
prone to react to penalties
that are called. For example,
if multiple violations such as
offside or holding occur
during the game, those will
generally be addressed by
the coaching staff the
following week to correct
those mistakes and hopefully
prevent them from occurring
again. However, it is human
nature not to address issues
that may not be brought to
our attention. When headdown
contact and spearing
fouls are not enforced and
addressed, student athletes
develop poor habits in
blocking and tackling. If left
uncorrected, those actions
may lead to potentially
serious injuries.


As R Courson said in the article.


This has been my point all along but I have no idea what I am talking about or back up what I say.

[JRutledge]

OK, now we must agree because someone wrote it in an article. I know I have called IHC and no one ever said anything to me about calling it when I threw the flag. As I have said before, when I have called it, I took more grief for the call rather than a pat on the back. So what part of this little statement applies to my experiences? And when I was a WH, I remember multiple times this was called and my crew came to me. I do not recall that coaches were calling for this to be called and then there was a flag. Even penalties like encroachment and holding is called all the time without a coach saying anything. As a matter of fact I remember a coach going nuts in a semi-final playoff game when the first holding call was made in the second half against his team. So this little comment does not hold any water outside of a personal opinion. It does not prove anything is or is not called. It does not make him an expert on what everyone has been calling. It is an opinion. Not that I completely disagree with the opinion, but it is not an across the board application.

But then again, BJ you have officiated before. So you are intimately aware of the process that an official goes through to make calls. After all, you have sat on the sidelines for several years as a coach. I guess I can fly a plane because I have been on many flights in my lifetime too (yeah right).

Peace

[KWH]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

This has been my point all along but I have no idea what I am talking about or back up what I say.

So is R Courson's and Big John's entire point that these players who "develop poor habits in blocking and tackling" are doing so because they have not been penalized?

A reasonable person might conclude that these players "develop poor habits in blocking and tackling" simply because they have been poorly coached!

[bigjohn]

Both are guilty and need to do better. No doubt about that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KWH

So is R Courson's and Big John's entire point that these players who "develop poor habits in blocking and tackling" are doing so because they are not penalized?

Some would observe that these player "develop poor habits in blocking and tackling" simply because they have been poorly coached!

No KWH, BJ made a claim in this entire discussion (on two different websites) that he had a kid that would stop committing IHC but he could not get his player to stop because. He only kept this player in the game to "protect" his QB and did not ever teach the kid not to commit an "obvious" foul in BJ's mind. Then he put it all on the officials for not throwing flags on the kid. Now I would not be surprised if there is some truth to this story, but if he is the coach and he is knowingly playing a kid that is committing a dangerous act, but does not take action like take the kid out of the game or teach better technique, I find that outrageous. Especially when the kid that is likely going to get hurt the most, is the kid committing the illegal act. But this is the logic of BJ and how officials are all at fault.

Peace

[bigjohn]

and I subsequently through my head coach under the bus. I told him we should not play the kid because he was a danger to himself. I have other assistant coaches that would vouch for me here. He said it was his call and he would take the heat. That part is 100% true.

1 kid in 25 years. and that is what is being rehashed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

and I subsequently through my head coach under the bus. I told him we should not play the kid because he was a danger to himself. I have other assistant coaches that would vouch for me here. He said it was his call and he would take the heat. That part is 100% true.

1 kid in 25 years. and that is what is being rehashed.

This was the claim you made, no one brought this up but you. If you felt that strongly about it, you should have retired in protest. I guess the kid's safety was not that important (whether he could walk or function on his own), but protecting a QB was more important.

Peace