Translation issues

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

One thing I'd have to ask is what dvasques needs to do here. Is your job to translate the NCAA football rule book so you can present it as, "Here is the authentic current NCAA football rule book translated into Portugese."? Or are you operating as a "rules committee of 1", and just doing your own research? That is, do you have to "sell" the product to someone as, "Here is what has been formulated and tested by a large organiz'n for football?" Because if not, if you have nobody to answer to, why not just think it thru (preferably, but not necessarily, in consultation with others) and decide what makes sense for you, without regard to exactly what the existing rule book says?

For 80 years in American football, team B/R has been given opportunity to catch the free kicked ball, so that opp'ty is not to be interfered with. The different codes have slightly different criteria as to when that opportunity exists. In Canadian football there is no such opp'ty, but for over 50 years the receiving team but not the kicking team at a kickoff has been allowed to block before possession of the ball is gained. Why not just use that knowledge and formulate your own criteria?

Robert in the Bronx

Not to criticize this remark Robert, but have you ever been involved in a process where you had to translate something from English to another language? There are many considerations when one wants to maintain the dynamic equivalency from the source language once it's translated into the target language. Some rules in football would require lots of expansion if I were to translate it into American Sign Language, just to maintain that dynamic equivalency.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Not to criticize this remark Robert, but have you ever been involved in a process where you had to translate something from English to another language? There are many considerations when one wants to maintain the dynamic equivalency from the source language once it's translated into the target language. Some rules in football would require lots of expansion if I were to translate it into American Sign Language, just to maintain that dynamic equivalency.

OK, but I hope you understand that none of that has anything to do with what I was asking dvasques.

[dvasques]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

OK, but I hope you understand that none of that has anything to do with what I was asking dvasques.

Just for the record, what I'm trying to do here in Brasil is implement the rules that are used by IFAF. I've been told by their Head of Officiating that their rules is the NCAA with a few changes. So the first thing I'm doing is translating the NCAA rules first. Then I'll make the IFAF changes.
And later, we will make some more changes for our beach football (that has no pads and no drawns line on the ground). TXMike knows what I'm talking about...

And thanks everyone for the responses. Really helpfull.

[dvasques]

NCAA book, Rule 7-3-4 says:

No eligible offensive receiver who goes out of bounds during a down shall touch a legal forward pass in the field of play or end zones or while airborne until it has been touched by an oponent or official

And Rule 7-3-5 says:

When a Team B player or an official touches a legal forward pass, all players become eligible


Now, I'm coming from NFL rules and, unless I'm mistaken, a Team A eligible player who's gone out of bounds would regain his eligibility once either an official, Team B player or another Team A eligible player touched the ball.

Not like this in the NCAA?

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by dvasques

NCAA book, Rule 7-3-4 says:
No eligible offensive receiver who goes out of bounds during a down shall touch a legal forward pass in the field of play or end zones or while airborne until it has been touched by an opponent or official

And Rule 7-3-5 says:
When a Team B player or an official touches a legal forward pass, all players become eligible

Now, I'm coming from NFL rules and, unless I'm mistaken, a Team A eligible player who's gone out of bounds would regain his eligibility once either an official, Team B player or another Team A eligible player touched the ball.

Not like this in the NCAA?

You have it right.. that team-A player can now touch the ball.

[dvasques]

yes, but another Team A eligible player touching the ball does not make every player eligible, right?

[With_Two_Flakes]

Correct. It has to be a Team B player or an official.

We are currently choosing our guys from the UK for the IFAF Pool (I'm on the Selection Committee) and notice that Brazil is on the list in the Email about it. So I can understand that you have an impetus to get changed over to NCAA Rules.
Don't know the Head of IFAF Officiating myself, but I know his Assistants well. I've worked in EFAF with Einar and I've worked three games with Yoshiki who was at World Cup 99 in Sicily with me.

[dvasques]

I thought Einar was the heard of officiating for IFAF...

We have two names to throw into IFAF pool and mine is one of them. But I have no idea of what's going to happen after that. Thing is, down in south america there's not many games we could send someone form brazil to officiate and therefore, it's hard to get the experience outside the counrty.

But we'll keep working. I was already on the process of this translation before the email about the IFAF pool but surely it has sped up the process for me

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by dvasques

Just for the record, what I'm trying to do here in Brasil is implement the rules that are used by IFAF. I've been told by their Head of Officiating that their rules is the NCAA with a few changes. So the first thing I'm doing is translating the NCAA rules first. Then I'll make the IFAF changes.

Why not obtain IFAF's rules in some language and translate that? Or does IFAF not have their own complete written set of rules in any language, just incorporating NCAA by reference?

And later, we will make some more changes for our beach football (that has no pads and no drawns line on the ground).

Well, certainly one of the lines does not need to be drawn...but it keeps moving!

Robert in the Bronx

[dvasques]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why not obtain IFAF's rules in some language and translate that? Or does IFAF not have their own complete written set of rules in any language, just incorporating NCAA by reference?


Well, certainly one of the lines does not need to be drawn...but it keeps moving!

Robert in the Bronx

I've asked for the IFAF book but there is none yet. So they use NCAA incorporated by reference.

Robert, it is a lot more complicated then you think to have a scrimmage line marked down at beach games here...

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by dvasques

Robert, it is a lot more complicated then you think to have a scrimmage line marked down at beach games here...

But I meant one of the boundaries is easy to call because you see the splash when the player steps beyond it.

[dvasques]

oh yes.. but still, sometimes it's hard to define if the boudaries are straight or if they've moved a little...
It's not easy to have a real game on the sand...

[jjrye22]

Hi dvasques

Can these people not get you a current Portugese translation? It says it is run by the Spanish association, but to play with Portugese teams, you would think they would have it also translated.

LNFA 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe ot would save you a lot of work... Or the Spanish one (not knowing the languages, I don't know how different they are).

As for your questions:
I agree, A can only block after they are elligible to touch the ball, Two_Flakes summed it up nicely.
I agree, the A player OOB is only made elligible after it touches a B player or official. Touched by an A player does not change the status.


Good luck!