Quick one.... Dead ball foul and untimed down

[Welpe]

I will give you the Fed answer since I don't know the NCAA one (though I imagine it is the same).

You enforce the facemask first since it is a live ball foul (5 or 15 yards from the end of the run). After that, march off each USC in the order that the fouls were committed (this is important in case the penalty for one of the USC fouls ends up being half the distance to the goal), set the chains and play an untimed down for the live ball foul.

[Jim D.]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I will give you the Fed answer since I don't know the NCAA one (though I imagine it is the same).

You enforce the facemask first since it is a live ball foul (5 or 15 yards from the end of the run). After that, march off each USC in the order that the fouls were committed (this is important in case the penalty for one of the USC fouls ends up being half the distance to the goal), set the chains and play an untimed down for the live ball foul.

Sounds good to me. I assume time for the 4th quarter ran out during the play.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Unless I'm mistaken, the two USCs will offset in NCAA since the second one occurred before the first one was 'completed.' But there will be an untimed down for the face mask foul.

[Robert Goodman]

If the penalty for the live ball foul is declined, is there still an untimed down in either code?

[Texas Aggie]

Under any circumstance, the USC fouls offset. See 10.1.5. Technically, B has the option to accept or decline the penalty, and if they decline, the game is over or we go to OT. If they accept, the penalty is enforced and an untimed down is played.

From a practical standpoint, unless Team B is down by 8 or less to Team A (or the game is tied), the penalty will be declined and the game will be over.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Under any circumstance, the USC fouls offset. See 10.1.5.

Rule 10-1-5 refers to half the distance to the goal. Rule 10-2-5 states, "A dead ball foul is not coupled with a live-ball foul or another dead-ball foul to create a double or multiple foul." Case Book 10.2.5 Situation B addresses this situation (using fighting instead of USC, but it still applies) where Team A starts the fight, where Team B starts the fight, and where no one knows who started the fight. If both players simultaneously yelled "%*#@ you!" to each other, there would be no penalty yardage assessed.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

From a practical standpoint, unless Team B is down by 8 or less to Team A (or the game is tied), the penalty will be declined and the game will be over.

Even if Team B is down by more than 8, they usually take the penalty. Every team I've seen down late in a game usually tries to score. Maybe they are being shutout. Maybe they want the score to seem better than it was.

Of course, if the accepted penalty only gives Team B the ball on their own 15 or so, they may decline it. Not many teams would bother attempting for a meaningless 85-yard touchdown. But if the ball is at the A 40 or closer...

[Welpe]

Bully, I'm almost positive that Aggie is referring to NCAA rules.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If the penalty for the live ball foul is declined, is there still an untimed down in either code?

Not in NF. There must be an accepted penalty to extend the period. There are a few exceptions such as dead ball fouls, etc.

[Forksref]

A dead ball foul will never offset a live ball foul. Only live ball fouls will offset. (NFHS)