Illegal Forward Pass Ruling in SD-PIT Game

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by bmf1314

Questions on this topic:



3) How does an NFL official getting paid six figures for a half year of work not know the rules? Plus he has like 5 other helpers and a replay official. Pretty bad. Correct?

Why do people feel like coming to officiating message boards to bash officials? Correct?

[Warrenkicker]

The issue on the play was that there were two attempted backward passes on the last play. The first was an illegal pass as it went forward. The second was a backward pass that also hit the ground. The officials were confused as to which pass was illegal (forward). They incorrectly determined that the illegal pass hit the ground and thus was incomplete. Within minutes they determined that they got the two passes confused and Pittsburgh should have been awarded the TD.

Green takes the hit for not remembering what all happened during the replay. He saw over and over again what happened on the play but was then talked into changing his mind. He would have saved himself just by going over and taking another look.

[shave-tail]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

He would have saved himself just by going over and taking another look.

By rule, after the official leaves the review booth he can't return to review the same play. This was discribed by head of officials on ESPN.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by b10mtrk

4) Acceptance of the penalty requires an untimed down for SD (Quarter/Half may not end with an accepted penalty)

So, if SD had scored a TD on the last play but was flagged for holding and Pittsburgh accepted then SD would have gotten an untimed down?

I thought that rule (at least in the NFL) only applied to defensive penalties.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by bmf1314

Questions on this topic:


3) How does an NFL official getting paid six figures for a half year of work not know the rules? Plus he has like 5 other helpers and a replay official. Pretty bad. Correct?

The ammount of money he gets paid doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he is a human. Humans make mistakes. You'd think that being a millionaire would put a stop to the false starts and other bone headed fouls the players make, but that don't seem to stop the Dallas Cowboys from averaging about 5 false starts per game.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by bmf1314

3) How does an NFL official getting paid six figures for a half year of work not know the rules? Plus he has like 5 other helpers and a replay official. Pretty bad. Correct?

'cause we have humans and not robots calling games.

The guy from San Diego notwithstanding, everybody has kicked a call at some point. Some are bigger than others.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by overandback

'cause we have humans and not robots calling games.

The guy from san diego notwithstanding, everybody has kicked a call at some point. Some are bigger than others.

lol.....

[JugglingReferee]

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[b10mtrk]

Originally Posted by bmf1314

Questions on this topic:

1) Lets say LT threw an IFP and it was caught. And the play goes on. Since it was an IFP and the ball was caught the defense can either accept or decline the penalty? Correct?

2) If the IFP was dropped then you cannot accept or decline the penalty. The ball is dead. Correct?

3) How does an NFL official getting paid six figures for a half year of work not know the rules? Plus he has like 5 other helpers and a replay official. Pretty bad. Correct?

1) Completed pass, legal or illegal, the ball remains alive. The offended team has the right to accept or decline the penalty for the IFP. The options are decline the penalty and accept the results of the play, Or accept the penalty and re-play the down (I am unsure if the NFL code defines and IFP as a loss of down penalty). Decline = Result of the play - TD Pittsburgh. Accept the penalty (two potential results) 1) if IFP is loss of down - game over - score 11 to 10; if not LOD SD get an untimed down.

2) If the IFP was incomplete, flag, whistle, down over, enforce penalty based on D's acceptance/declination. Action after the incomplete pass was action with a dead ball.

3) I'll agree with the basic statement - this mistake is unacceptable for the NFL. That said, I'll bet every official (irrespective of NF, NCAA, NFL) has at some point, due to unusual circumstances and unanticipated events become twisted and choked on a basic call by over thinking and not stepping back and reciting the applicable football fundamentals.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by shave-tail

By rule, after the official leaves the review booth he can't return to review the same play. This was discribed by head of officials on ESPN.

I don't doubt that you are correct. However the review official could have buzzed down to recheck the facts as I would assume it is their first responsibility to get the ruling right. R wouldn't have to have gone in the booth to confirm which pass was which. I do see now that they are looking at changing some things to try to avoid this problem again.

I find it funny how often rules are changed to try to avoid repeating special situations that could have been covered earlier if odd situations had been thought about earlier.

[PeteBooth]

I cannot believe that some are naive.

Some facts to ponder

1. Legal betters in Las Vegas had an $83 Million swing on the outcome of the game.

2. 13 Penalties on Pittsburgh to 1 for the Chargers. The pass interference call on the Steelers in the first / second quarter was simply a joke

3. The score was 11-10 - Steelers won so why even bother going over the play to begin with whether the call was right / wrong - It meant NOTHING at that point. The Chargers didn't care - They lost and the Steelers didn't care they ALREADY won.

4. IR's main use is to make certain that no team gets hosed - Not change the score to accomodate a point spread. There was absolutley no reason for the Replay official to even get involved with this.

It's funny in that some people accuse baseball players of taking steroids WITHOUT any HARD proof other than some testimony refuse to accept that there is something "shaky" that went on in the SD / Steelers game and the NFL is doing it's best to make it go away.

You know the saying "If it walks and talks like a duck"

We already had an NBA official who cheated the game. To think that he is the ONE and ONLY official ever to do that is IMO being Naive.

Pete Booth

[Welpe]

You've gotta be kidding me. Pete I've always thought you were an upstanding umpire but are you really accusing NFL officials of cheating based upon flimsy "evidence" and much speculation?

Do you accuse MLB umpires of cheating when things go awry? By your logic, the MLB umpires threw the entire World Series based upon their performance this year.

It's bad enough we have fans, coaches, players and broadcasters accusing officials of cheating but now fellow officials? Unbelievable.

[PeteBooth]

First things first

We are not talking about a bad call or things that went awry.

There was No call. For some strange reason which is still uknown the Replay official got involved.

It's not Flimsy when that type of money is involved and the ENTITE state of affairs in the game starting with the Penalty disparity.

It happened in the NBA. There is far more money bet on football games than basketball.

If it happend in the NBA what makes you think it cannot happen in Football. Do you really believe that he is the ONLY Official ever involved?

In addition, there really is NO VALID explanation for what happened at the end of the Pittsburgh / SD game.

Yes I am an offfical but I am also a human being (at least I think I am) and I am merely pointing out VALID events that happened in the game yesterday.

It's akin to steroid abuse in baseball. Other than some testimony and others admitting steroid use (because of pressure etc.) there really is no HARD evidence. Who believes Roger Clemens?

If you think that Roger Clemens took steroids (based upon inuendo or someone's testimony) then why isn't yesterday's events "fishy" at best

Pete Booth

[Welpe]

Here is what happened. The booth buzzed the R and said the last play needed to be reviewed. Whether or not there was a illegal forward pass is one such play that may be reviewed. They reviewed the play and realized that there was an illegal forward pass but that the penalty would be declined by Pittsburgh. OK fine, line up for the PAT.

While lining up for the PAT, an onfield official runs in and confers with the Referee. The Referee announces that the illegal forward pass makes the ball dead. The easiest explanation for this is that they incorrectly thought the backward pass that hit the ground was in fact the one that was ruled forward. That would make the ball dead. They simply screwed it up on the field.

That explanation makes a lot more sense than an onfield official running in and telling the R, "Hey this will mean that Pittsburgh covers the spread. We have to overrule this!"

A screwup this big is going to expose the crew and league to much criticism and I highly doubt they would intentionally open themselves up it. To do so in the same year as the Hoculi incident and other high profile incidents would be very foolish.

Let's take the rest point by point:

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

1. Legal betters in Las Vegas had an $83 Million swing on the outcome of the game.

Similar with every other nationally televised football game, I'm sure.

2. 13 Penalties on Pittsburgh to 1 for the Chargers.

Completely irrelevant. You've never had a lopsided game where one pitcher can find the strike zone and the other can't? If a team commits more fouls, they will be assessed more penalties.

The pass interference call on the Steelers in the first / second quarter was simply a joke

I didn't see the foul so you will have to enlighten us. Why was it a joke? Did it not fit into one of the categories of pass interference or is that just your opinion?

3. The score was 11-10 - Steelers won so why even bother going over the play to begin with whether the call was right / wrong - It meant NOTHING at that point. The Chargers didn't care - They lost and the Steelers didn't care they ALREADY won.

Because it is the rule and the accuracy of the score and the statistics depend upon it.

4. IR's main use is to make certain that no team gets hosed - Not change the score to accomodate a point spread. There was absolutley no reason for the Replay official to even get involved with this.

That's a mighty big speculation on your end and you have no proof to backup that is why this play was reviewed. This play was reviewed by the booth because they saw a pass that looked forward and they were required by rule to review it.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

First things first

It's not Flimsy when that type of money is involved and the ENTITE state of affairs in the game starting with the Penalty disparity.

So how can the entire state of affairs be at risk over this play when you already said the game was already decided?

It happened in the NBA. There is far more money bet on football games than basketball.

Donaghy got away with what he did for so long because he made subtle foul calls that affected his games by shaving points. Not by changing the entire spread of a game in one call. By all accounts, he acted as a lone official. This is an entire crew we're talking about here, so not only would the entire field crew need to be in on the fix but so would the replay officials. Entire crews have been known to blow calls in the heat of the moment. This time it just happened to effect the spread.

If it happend in the NBA what makes you think it cannot happen in Football. Do you really believe that he is the ONLY Official ever involved?

I never said it couldn't happen in football but I would hope you would have more than flimsy evidence before impugning the integrity of this crew. You're not even content to give them the benefit of the doubt, something I would hope you would afford another official.

Answer this question, why does the NFL care about the point spread of this particular game?

[Raymond]

SDS should be all over this.