Two players in Motion

[grantsrc]

Two players moving is illegal shift.

One player moving in motion illegally (going forward) is illegal motion.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Two players moving is illegal shift.

One player moving in motion illegally (going forward) is illegal motion.

Not correct. For example: two players move during a shift. One sets, the other does not. Ball is snapped. This is an illegal shift, and it doesn't matter whether the one player is moving "forward" at the snap.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Not correct. For example: two players move during a shift. One sets, the other does not. Ball is snapped. This is an illegal shift, and it doesn't matter whether the one player is moving "forward" at the snap.

Yes, that is an illegal shift. In my example, for the sake of brevity I didn't address all possible examples. Shame on me...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Yes, that is an illegal shift. In my example, for the sake of brevity I didn't address all possible examples. Shame on me...

Brevity is fine, but not at the expense of misleading people into thinking, "two in motion = illegal shift, one in motion = illegal motion." That's brief all right, but it's also wrong.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Brevity is fine, but not at the expense of misleading people into thinking, "two in motion = illegal shift, one in motion = illegal motion." That's brief all right, but it's also wrong.

Read my original post, I said nothing about one player in motion= illegal motion, I said one player in motion illegally. Those are two different things.

[ajmc]

A real simple solution, bigjohn, when there's a flag thrown on the field, just ask the wing man on your side line to explain what the call is, and accept what he tells you. Beating a horse to death just for the sake of beating him is cruel and unusual and may even be considered flagrant.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Read my original post, I said nothing about one player in motion= illegal motion, I said one player in motion illegally. Those are two different things.

Oh, all you're saying is that illegal motion is illegal motion. Hard to argue with that. Brief, too.

[bigjohn]

http://home.comcast.net/~minnmo/foot...-newFormat.doc

an excerpt from the above article.

PLAY: Set backs A10 and A32 mistakenly both go in motion on the QB’s signal. Their motion is parallel to the line of scrimmage. The ball is snapped (a) while both are still moving, or (b) after A10 stops, realizing that something’s wrong, while A32 continues with his motion. RULING: In (a) Team A is guilty of illegal motion. They have two players moving at the snap. [Note: this is a foul that a lot of referees mistakenly call an illegal shift.] In (b) A is guilty of an illegal shift. Once A10 stops, he’s completed a shift, which requires all eleven offensive players—including A32—to be set for at least one second.

[bigjohn]

Is this illegal motion?

http://home.comcast.net/~minnmo/foot...egalmotion.wmv

[grantsrc]

Ok, so I think I see the difference between all the plays mentioned in this thread. So if two players go in motion at the exact same time and don't stop, illegal motion per 7-2-7.

If two players go in motion and one of them resets, then it's an illegal shift per 7-2-6.

As for the video (I can't see it they block the site here at school), if I remember correctly, that's the play where the QB goes under center when the motion man goes in motion. Based on where my understanding of things thus far (which is a little shaky to say the least ) I believe this is an illegal shift. This was a POE this year, correct?

[bigjohn]

ART. 6 . . . After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute
stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands,
feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap.
illegal shift (Art. 6) – (S20);

I don't see anything in this rule about motion.

[bigjohn]

7.2.7 Situation: The quarterback by voice command has signaled his teammates to assume a set position while he is standing upright behind the center. The quarterback steps forward and places his hands under the center to receive the snap: (a) at the instant the snap is made; or (b) which is made after he is motionless, but prior to one second having elapsed; or (c) which is made after he is motionless for one second; or (d) which is made after he is motionless for one second, but while he is stepping backward with one foot as the snap is made.
Ruling: In (a), it is illegal motion. In (b), it is an illegal shift. In (c), it is legal. In (d), it is legal unless a teammate is also in motion at the snap.

Is (d) illegal motion or illegal shift if a teammate is in motion??

[bigjohn]

Rule 2 SECTION 39
says nothing about motion here either!

SHIFT
A shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after
taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

7.2.7 Situation: The quarterback by voice command has signaled his teammates to assume a set position while he is standing upright behind the center. The quarterback steps forward and places his hands under the center to receive the snap: (a) at the instant the snap is made; or (b) which is made after he is motionless, but prior to one second having elapsed; or (c) which is made after he is motionless for one second; or (d) which is made after he is motionless for one second, but while he is stepping backward with one foot as the snap is made.
Ruling: In (a), it is illegal motion. In (b), it is an illegal shift. In (c), it is legal. In (d), it is legal unless a teammate is also in motion at the snap.

Is (d) illegal motion or illegal shift if a teammate is in motion??

7-2-7 Only one A player may be in motion at the snap
PENALTY: illegal motion (S20)

note: I deleted the non applicable parts to save space.

[bigjohn]

7.2.6 Situation B: Backs A1 and A2 simultaneously move to new backfield positions prior to the snap. In less than one second after both are stationary: (a) A3 goes in motion and is in motion at the snap; or (b) the ball is snapped.
Ruling: Illegal shift in both (a) and (b). Following a huddle or a shift, all 11 players of A must come to a complete stop and must remain stationary simultaneously for at least one second before the snap or before a player goes in motion. (2-39)