![]() |
|
|
|||
The rules say touchdown
NCAA Rules
They define the 2 pylons at the goal line as in the end zone. Why, who knows. End Zones ARTICLE 3. The end zones are the 10-yard areas at both ends of the field between the end lines and the goal lines. The goal lines and goal line pylons are in the end zone, and a team’s end zone is the one it is defending (A.R. 8-5-1-X and A.R. 8-6-1-I). There is an exception for the end zone in determining if a pass is completed. Notice a player does not need to be inbounds to determine a completed pass in the end zone which from the replay he appeared to be in the end zone. There appear to be different rules for a pass caught in the end zone. Completed Pass ARTICLE 6. Any forward pass is completed when caught by a player of the passing team who is inbounds, and the ball continues in play unless completed in the opponent’s end zone or the pass has been caught simultaneously by opposing players. If a forward pass is caught simultaneously by opposing players inbounds, the ball becomes dead and belongs to the passing team (Rule 2-2-7) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-6-I-IX). He was in the end zone when his forward progress was stopped with frim control of the ball. I don't see anywhere it says for a pass caught in the end zone a player has to come down in bounds only that his progress has to be stopped in the end zone. Reminder they have defined that the "goal line pylons are in the end zone". These are special magical pylons with a power of their own. In a bowl game between navy and utah the ncaa made a statement that the pylons are both in the end zone and out of bounds. (huh !!!). "The ball was fumbled forward and hit the pylon. The pylon is out of bounds and also in the end zone," read an official statement from the officiating crew, citing Rule 8, Section 6, Article 1, Item 1 in the NCAA college football rule book. "There was a mistake made. It should have been ruled a touchback and the ball should have been placed at the 20-yard line." Incompleted Pass ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete if the ball is out of bounds by rule or if it touches the ground when not firmly controlled by a player. It also is incomplete when a player leaves his feet and receives the pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line, unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule 4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-7-I). This rule stopped his progress after it was a complete pass by rule. Since he was in the end zone with clear possession of the ball it should be a touchdown since his progress had the ball in the end zone. He was both out of bounds and in the end zone. ARTICLE 1. a. A player or an airborne player is out of bounds when any part of his person touches anything, other than another player or game official, on or outside a boundary line (A.R. 4-2-1-I and II). b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds. |
|
|||
Quote:
The rules seem to indicate that a completed pass in the end zone should be a touchdown. The only requirement appears to be having progress stopped in the end zone. Since the pylon is in the end zone and out of bounds his progress was stopped(by touching the pylon) in the end zone(by being in the end zone). |
|
|||
As stated, an airborne player touching a pylon is out of bounds and the pass is incomplete. Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement. Forward progress was not yet stopped in this play. He was still going forward. Notice in the AR's that I posted all involve a defensive player. A defensive player has to be the one stopping a players forward progress.
|
|
|||
Quote:
The ref in this game must have read the rule book and I wish that Delany would also. The exceptions for completed and incomplete rules in the end zone were put in for a reason just as the definition that the end zone includes the pylons on the goal line for a reason. If plays like this should not be ruled a touchdown the rules committee should rewrite them. I laughed as soon as they reviewed the play during the game because I new he was judging the play by the rule book and most people who have never read the rule book would never agree. It defied common sense but sometimes rules do. |
|
|||
You clearly are a rules expert and are wasting your time here Why not contact Delaney and the Big Ten direct and let them know you are available to straighten them (and every other person who actualy understands NCAA Rules) out:
James E. Delany Commissioner 1500 West Higgins Road Park Ridge, IL 60068-6300 (847) 696-1010 |
|
|||
Quote:
Last edited by JasonTX; Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 10:25pm. |
|
|||
Jason:
I expect he would have more success arguing the wording in the Bible - there are a lot of different translations of that book. Various organizations each claim theirs is the 'correct' version. With the Rulebook, it is covered by 1 organization and 1 release that is valid (the current edition). Less wiggle room. ![]() |
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
Despite your attempt to make the rules say what they do not, the picture of the play in question defies all your attempts to argue that black is white. http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...xH=650&title=0 |
|
|||
Quote:
ARTICLE 4. a. If a live ball is declared out of bounds and the ball does not cross a boundary line, it is out of bounds at the ball’s most forward point when it was declared dead (A.R. 4-2-4-I) (Exception: Rule 8-5-1-a, A.R. 8-5-1-I). Incompleted Pass ARTICLE 7. a. Any forward pass is incomplete if the ball is out of bounds by rule or if it touches the ground when not firmly controlled by a player. It also is incomplete when a player leaves his feet and receives the pass but first lands on or outside a boundary line, unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone (Rule 4-1-3-p) (A.R. 2-2-7-III and A.R. 7-3-7-I). |
|
|||
Quote:
How Scored ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when: a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV). b. An eligible receiver catches a legal forward pass in the opponent’s end zone (A.R. 5-1-3-I and II). Now look at the definition of catch. To catch, intercept or recover a ball, a player who leaves his feet to make a catch, interception or recovery must have the ball firmly in his possession when he first returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply. From page FR-81: b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds. Now what is all this about 4-1-3-p that you keep claiming to trump all this. If you notice that is the rule that your post uses as a reference as well as mine. Here it is: When an airborne pass receiver from either team is so held and subsequently carried that he is prevented from immediately returning to the ground. You see, in the play in question, that player WAS NOT held or carried that it prevented him from coming to the ground. He was simply pushed and hit the pylon before touching the ground inbounds. Incomplete Pass. |
|
|||
WHy do you guys waste your time? The zenman is cearly in another zone and his alternative reality makes this a TD He is so wrapped up over the "fact" that the pylon is "in the EZ" he cannot see the fact that it is OUT OF BOUNDS. In his mind, the receiver came to ground in the end zone..period. Fortunately for everyone he is not officiating football at any level.
|
|
|||
[QUOTE=JasonTX;548088]SECTION 2. Touchdown
How Scored ARTICLE 1. A touchdown shall be scored when: a. A runner advancing from the field of play is legally in possession of a live ball when it penetrates the opponent’s goal line (plane) (Exception: Rule 4-2-4-e) (A.R. 2-23-1-I and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IV). b. An eligible receiver catches a legal forward pass in the opponent’s end zone (A.R. 5-1-3-I and II). Now look at the definition of catch. To catch, intercept or recover a ball, a player who leaves his feet to make a catch, interception or recovery must have the ball firmly in his possession when he first returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply. From page FR-81: b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds. Thanks this is what I was trying to find out since the rules for complete or incomplete pass was not that clear. I did not see the exception in the end zone was the player had to be held. or is so held that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply The incomplete pass said unless his progress has been stopped in the field of play or end zone. The reference attached contained the exception. I knew he had not touched the boundry line and since the pylon was in the end zone it seemed to indicate that all that was needed was for his progress to be stopped in the end zone. Thanks |
|
|||
Quote:
Next? |
|
|||
Too bad they ain't even close to having a decent football team play in the so called "best college football stadium in the country".
|
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Wisc/Mich 4th and short | PSU213 | Football | 7 | Sun Sep 28, 2008 05:05pm |
Mich St / Indiana | tjones1 | Basketball | 16 | Wed Mar 05, 2008 09:07am |
Mich/Minn ? | kd0254 | Basketball | 2 | Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:27pm |
Gonzaga/Mich St. in Maui | ChuckElias | Basketball | 7 | Wed Nov 23, 2005 03:51pm |
Duke Mich St 4.2 secs | justacoach | Basketball | 7 | Fri Mar 25, 2005 09:39pm |