Slapping the Snap

[kdf5]

Bigjohn you remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. His opponent kept lopping off body parts and yet he wouldn't surrender no matter how badly he was losing.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Bigjohn you remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. His opponent kept lopping off body parts and yet he wouldn't surrender no matter how badly he was losing.

It's just a flesh wound.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by waltjp

You can't be serious with this answer. What did B do that was illegal?

What is human reaction time? The center is the person snapping and he knows when the snap is going to occur. No way the defender could time this perfectly to beat a center who is snapping the ball.

[bigjohn]

We'll call it a draw!

YouTube - Monty Python And The Holy Grail- The Black Knight

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

What is human reaction time? The center is the person snapping and he knows when the snap is going to occur. No way the defender could time this perfectly to beat a center who is snapping the ball.

Maybe it's me, but I still don't see you citing a rule.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

slapping the snap causes a snap infraction, no? That is false start.

A snap infraction is a false start? I think you might want to learn some definitions.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by waltjp

John, Redding's interpretation is qualified by saying 'highly unlikely'. This is hardly a definitive ruling. I don't disagree with the Redding interpretation, I'm just saying it's possible. If I see B encroach I'll call it. But it's not automatic.

The snap was required to be "quick and continuous" in the hope that plays like this would not be part of the game, but I certainly wouldn't consider it anything like USC, let alone a "travesty of the game", if A1 were to move the ball slowly enough to still be considered "quick" yet allow B1 to contact it without encroaching. I could see B1 stealing A's signal and possibly having much faster arm movement than A1. It's not like a free pass in informal basketball.

Robert

[With_Two_Flakes]

We play NCAA Rules over here in the UK and have no problems since NCAA Rules and AR's are quite specific on this point. Firstly NCAA Rules have a Section about Defensive Team Requirements (7-1-5) and a specific AR 7-1-5-II that addresses this exact issue.

Snapper A1 legally begins the snap, but B2 bats the ball before A1 completes the snap, and B3 recovers the ball.
RULING: Team B foul and the ball is dead.
Penalty -- Five yards from the succeeding spot. Team B may not touch the ball until it has been snapped. Team A retains possession.

I'm not quite so familiar with Fed rules as I only get to work them a couple of times every 3 or 4 years when I travel to the US. Fed rules lack a specific section for defensive requirements, but perhaps this is because the Fed Rules Ctte. feel there is adequate existing coverage in 7-1-5 already.

However, Rule 7 Section 1 BEFORE THE SNAP Article 5 says no player except the snapper shall encroach on the neutral zone. That includes the defence. I would think it reasonable and appropriate to interpret "before the snap" to mean "before the end of the snap".
The end of the snap is defined in 2-40-3 as "when the ball touches the ground or any player". Therefore I would maintain that it cannot be legally possible for a defensive player to put his hand across to touch the ball before the snap is completed since he will have encroached.

[Mike L]

You better rethink that or are you not going to allow the defense to penetrate the neutral zone until the QB in shotgun formation touches the ball?
It's really pretty simple, if the snap is done correctly it is not possible for the defense to slap the ball out of the snappers hand. Therefore, you must either have a snap infraction because the snap was not done properly or you have encroachment because the defense was in the zone prior to the snap.

[bigjohn]

Snap infraction is false start!

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3);
false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

[Welpe]

John those are different fouls referencing different articles of that rule.

[bigjohn]

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

[bigjohn]

What is the signal for snap infraction?

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Maybe it's me, but I still don't see you citing a rule.

If B slaps the ball during the snap, then he encroched. It's kinetics.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Snap infraction is false start!

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3);
false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

John, you do know that a snap infraction is a foul on the offense, right?