Question on Free Kick

[DesertZebra]

So making a travesty of the game by resorting to acting, with props, is okay then? Glad I'm not in your association.

I'm all for deception, as long as it's done in a gentleman's manner. Playing tricks on the other team is not football, it's chickensh..

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

I beg to differ. Using a tee as a decoy is not covered in the rules, hence 1-1-6.

I would submit that the Rule 2 definition of a rule says that this act is legal, even as a decoy.

A rule sometimes states what a player may do, but if there is no such statement for a given act (such as faking a kick), it is assumed that he may do what is not prohibited.

The rules define what a legal tee is and how a legal free kick is made. The rules do not say that a kick must be made from a tee or that the tee may not be present on the field if it is not used, therefore this play is legal.

You wouldn't flag a team for running a fake field goal and having a tee on the field, would you? The tee was just as much of a prop in this situation as a fake field goal.

Rule 1-1-6 is intended to be used in the bizarre situations where there truly is no rule support at all. Such as a dog running onto the field during a play and stealing the football. There is plenty of rules coverage for kicks, legal and illegal equipment so I believe it is a true stretch to say there is no rule coverage for this play.

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

So making a travesty of the game by resorting to acting, with props, is okay then? Glad I'm not in your association.

I'm all for deception, as long as it's done in a gentleman's manner. Playing tricks on the other team is not football, it's chickensh..

Football is all about deception and trickery. Hard snap counts, fake field goals, fake punts, free kicking directly from a huddle, going on first sound, going on 2, Dan Marino's fake spike and touch down pass...all of these are deceptive. So was the fumblerooski and when the Federation decided that it was too deceptive, it was specifically made illegal.

Teams have been free kicking the ball directly off of the ground for years and the Fed has not seen fit to specifically outlaw this act yet. I cannot see calling this USC. That is not within the spirit of the rules.

[DesertZebra]

Just so we're clear, I have no problem with kicking the ball while laying on the ground next to a tee. My beef is when a kicker walks up to the ball, as if to place it on the tee, and then gives it a little boot. That action is what I'm calling USC.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You wouldn't flag a team for running a fake field goal and having a tee on the field, would you? The tee was just as much of a prop in this situation as a fake field goal.

I don't think so. Deception's fine in my book, but AFAICT from the original description, no deception was even attempted. The tee was just placed on the field with no relationship to the place kick; the kick itself was not a surprise, neither in terms of its manner or time, unless I misread it.

How about putting the unused tee on the ground in a side zone of the field? How about several? Gee, ya never know when you might need to place kick from any of various spots, so why not have a tee there for convenience, huh?

Robert

[daggo66]

How about preventive officiating? Don't you guys have an official handing the ball to the kicker? When he places the ball on the ground next to the tee, tell him to put it on the tee. Once a spot is designated he must kick from that spot, so therefore he shouldn't be attempting to put the ball on the tee. If he says he is going to kick it off the ground, tell him to remove the tee from the field. Problem solved.

[Gmoore]

I asked this on another board but want to get a few more views....

K's team lines up for a free kick,after the ready for play is given the kicker approaches the ball but for some reason decides not to kick it.the kicker and only the kicker goes beyond the free kick line he then retreats behind the ball and then kicks the ball, No other K player breaks the free-kick line and the kick is before the 25 second clock expires

legal?

I know there are rules that allow the holder and the kicker to go beyond the free kick line but I cant find any casebook plays that deals with the above question... what do you guys think?

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by Gmoore

I asked this on another board but want to get a few more views....

K's team lines up for a free kick,after the ready for play is given the kicker approaches the ball but for some reason decides not to kick it.the kicker and only the kicker goes beyond the free kick line he then retreats behind the ball and then kicks the ball, No other K player breaks the free-kick line and the kick is before the 25 second clock expires

legal?

I know there are rules that allow the holder and the kicker to go beyond the free kick line but I cant find any casebook plays that deals with the above question... what do you guys think?

No problem, no advantage gained.... Might mention it to the coach though...

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

I've seen a team place the ball next to the tee, huddle up and wait for the signal from the R. Once the whistle is blown the kicker will walk up to the ball to place the ball on the tee, but instead kick the ball to an unsuspecting team.

USC, yes?

Normally you tell the kicker to hold up his hand to let the R know he is ready to kick, or, at least, you tell him that. Once the whistle blows the play clock takes over and there is 25 seconds to kick.

I would say USC as the kicker walking toward the ball and the motion of attempting to place the ball on the tee when a kick is imminent

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

I would say USC as the kicker walking toward the ball and the motion of attempting to place the ball on the tee when a kick is imminent

Huh. I was unaware of this. Which code, starting when, banned the old play of multiple K players approaching the ball and some of them drawing back before one of them finally kicks it? Which would seem to be USC by my understanding of what you've written.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Gmoore

I asked this on another board but want to get a few more views....

K's team lines up for a free kick,after the ready for play is given the kicker approaches the ball but for some reason decides not to kick it.the kicker and only the kicker goes beyond the free kick line he then retreats behind the ball and then kicks the ball, No other K player breaks the free-kick line and the kick is before the 25 second clock expires

legal?

I know there are rules that allow the holder and the kicker to go beyond the free kick line but I cant find any casebook plays that deals with the above question... what do you guys think?

I'd say that once he decides (as you write) not to kick it, he can't be considered a kicker for purposes of that exception, and it'd be a dead ball encroachment in Fed, but a nothing in other major codes.

Robert

[hawkishowl20]

NF:2.24.5 describing a "kickoff" limits the type of kick to be used as either a "drop kick" or a "place kick".

Is the ball able to be recovered by K after the dropkick in the air? It isn't on a placekick unless grounded but a dropkick has bounced off the ground but not after being kicked. Just curious.

[hawkishowl20]

what are all the situations you can dropkick in NFHS?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

what are all the situations you can dropkick in NFHS?

2.24.6
A drop kick is a legal kick by a player who drops the ball and kicks it when it touches the ground or as it is rising from the ground. A drop kick may be used for a scrimmage kick, a kickoff, a free kick following a safety, or for a free kick following a fair catch or awarded fair catch.

[JamesBond]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

Nope, it is USC - Intent to deceive. Much like the "Wrong ball, coach" play. Just because the RFP has blown doesn't mean all bets are off for deception. If the tee is being used as a decoy, intent to deceive is the call.

Can someone give me a rule reference for "intent to deceive". I can't find the passage for that.
007