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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 13, 2008, 10:12pm
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Thumbs down Question on Free Kick

On a free kick, does the kicking team have to use a tee, or can they lay the ball on the ground by the tee, but not touching it?

We had this situation in a Pee Wee game and another Ref told me that the ball had too be touching the tee.

I couldn't find anything in the rules that support this statement.
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Old Mon Oct 13, 2008, 10:15pm
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no

you won't find any rules support as there is none. Sounded like you worked with a guy who doesn't know the rules or makes up his own.
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 06:39am
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Did you ever notice that when officials make up rules, it's nearly always to prohibit rather than allow something? This observation supports a larger theory about giving small people a little power: they feel that they must exercise it as often as possible by saying "no."
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 08:20am
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No, I've never noticed that.
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 06:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Line Judge View Post
On a free kick, does the kicking team have to use a tee, or can they lay the ball on the ground by the tee, but not touching it?

We had this situation in a Pee Wee game and another Ref told me that the ball had too be touching the tee.

I couldn't find anything in the rules that support this statement.
I'm sure you won't, but it seems like a candidate for a discretionary ruling against. If one team wanted to litter the field with various items during the game, you probably wouldn't let them, even though I don't think there's any specific rule against it, so what's the justification for this piece of litter if it's not doing anything constructive for the game?

Robert
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 06:32pm
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I've seen a team place the ball next to the tee, huddle up and wait for the signal from the R. Once the whistle is blown the kicker will walk up to the ball to place the ball on the tee, but instead kick the ball to an unsuspecting team.

USC, yes?
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 06:33pm
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No, that is legal. There is not requirement for the ball to be on a tee for it to be legally kicked so the receiving team needs to be alert for a kick once the RFP is blown.
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Last edited by Welpe; Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 06:36pm.
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 07:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Mood Risin View Post
you won't find any rules support as there is none. Sounded like you worked with a guy who doesn't know the rules or makes up his own.
Overall, he is a good official and I have learned a lot from him. That is why I am asking the question.

Some of the other officials in our association would be a different story.
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Old Tue Oct 14, 2008, 11:53pm
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Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
No, that is legal. There is not requirement for the ball to be on a tee for it to be legally kicked so the receiving team needs to be alert for a kick once the RFP is blown.
Nope, it is USC - Intent to deceive. Much like the "Wrong ball, coach" play. Just because the RFP has blown doesn't mean all bets are off for deception. If the tee is being used as a decoy, intent to deceive is the call.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2008, 10:11am
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I can't find any reference to the requirement of a kicking tee in NF 6.1 (Free Kicks). Nor is there any suggestion regarding a kicking tee in NF: 2.24.3, which defines a "Free Kick".

NF:2.24.5 describing a "kickoff" limits the type of kick to be used as either a "drop kick" or a "place kick".

NF:2.24.7, defines "a place kick" is a legal kick made while the ball is in a fixed position on the ground or on a kicking tee".

Just an observation, but there seems to be WAY TOO MANY attempts to blow things up into USC under some exaggerated concept of "Intent to Deceive". Football is all about deception, and the counter ability of being smart enough to avoid being deceived by gimmicks.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2008, 12:41pm
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2008 Rule Change, rule 9-9-4...

Rule 9-9-4 No player shall use a kicking tee in violation of Rule 1-3-4.
Rule 1-3-4 simply states that the tee can only elevate the lowest point of the ball no more than 2 inches above the ground.

Since the tee is not being used to elevate the ball, it's not being used in accordance to the rules, and should not be out on the field.
But I think the intent of those rules is to put an end to using tees improperly, but not for the case at hand. So...

Rule 1-1-6 A referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2008, 05:23pm
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What was changed this year is the penalty for using an illegal tee. Note the rule says that a tee can only elevate a ball no more than 2 inches off the ground. In other words, a tee that elevates the lowest point of the ball more than 2 inches above the ground is illegal.

Per the definition of a legal kick, a tee is not required and there is nothing in the rules that specifies how the ball is placed on the tee. There are teams that put the ball sideways on a tee for a kick off. That is perfectly legal, so is kicking it directly off of the ground, or having it resting on the tee while also on the ground (for a free kick anyways).

Free kicks and what constitutes a legal kick are specifically covered in the rules, so I do not believe you have any basis for using 1-1-6 in ruling this USC.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2008, 10:26pm
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I beg to differ. Using a tee as a decoy is not covered in the rules, hence 1-1-6.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2008, 11:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertZebra View Post
2008 Rule Change, rule 9-9-4...

Rule 9-9-4 No player shall use a kicking tee in violation of Rule 1-3-4.
Rule 1-3-4 simply states that the tee can only elevate the lowest point of the ball no more than 2 inches above the ground.

Since the tee is not being used to elevate the ball, it's not being used in accordance to the rules, and should not be out on the field.
C'm'on, 1-3-4 just puts a ceiling, not a floor, on how high the tee can raise the ball off the ground; otherwise a rugby-style ring tee, which leaves the bottom of the ball touching the ground, would be illegal.

Meanwhile, AFAIK Fed has not extended to free kicks the prohibition on playing the ball while using verbal signals indicating not being ready.

But if anyone can put a kicking tee out there without using it, why couldn't team R also throw their kicking tee out there? And maybe a few tackling dummies, and play like Bobby Riggs used to play handicap tennis (with obstacles on his side of the net)?

Robert
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Old Thu Oct 16, 2008, 12:42pm
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I'm not sure which code you are referring to, DesertZebra, but the notion that "Using a tee as a decoy is not covered in the rules, hence 1-1-6." is simply ridiculous.
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