Free Kick Question

dumbref · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 02:54pm

Free Kick - ball is kicked high and short. R1 signals for a fair catch and begins running toward the ball in flight. The ball hits the ground at R's 40. Before R1 can recover the grounded kick, K1 blocks R1 preventing him from recovering the ball. Legal or illegal?

What if the same action occurred in the NZ?

I do not have my book - so please provide rule info.

smith55js · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 04:22pm

fair catch not applicable on free kick.

mcrowder · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 04:45pm

Nonsense. Why would you think that.

Legal.

shave-tail · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 05:02pm

You can signal for a fair catch on any kick. The blocking by K is legal in both plays. Once the ball hits the ground the opportunity for a fair catch has ended. However, the receiving team can not advance the ball beyond the point of control nor can the player who signaled for the free catch block or basically participate in the the play until it's ended.

[Edited by shave-tail on Oct 25th, 2005 at 07:27 PM]

Niner · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 06:19pm

Signaler cannot block until the kick has ended.

shave-tail · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 06:26pm

Thanks....you can read and re-read and not see the mistake!!!!!!

MJT · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by shave-tail
You can signal for a fair catch on any kick. The blocking by K is legal in both plays. Once the ball hits the ground the opportunity for a fair catch has ended. However, the receiving team can not advance the ball beyond the point of control nor can the player who signaled for the free catch block or basically participate in the the play until it's ended.

[Edited by shave-tail on Oct 25th, 2005 at 07:27 PM]

Although the FC will not be valid cuz the ball was grounded, the receiver who signaled is still given protection. Where does it say that his protection is terminated cuz the ball was grounded?

SECTION 5 FAIR CATCH
ART. 1 . . . Any receiver may signal for a fair catch while any legal kick is in flight. Any receiver who has given a valid or invalid fair-catch signal is prohibited from blocking until the kick has ended.
ART. 2 . . . It is a fair catch and the ball is dead if any receiver gives a valid fair-catch signal, as in Article 1, and he catches a free kick in or beyond the neutral zone to R's goal line, or a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone to R's goal line.
ART. 3 . . . Only the receiver who gives a valid signal is afforded protection. If, after a receiver signals, the catch is made by a teammate, it is not a fair catch but the ball becomes dead.

From what I am seeing, you should have KCI on the play you described. We had a very similar situation last night in a JV game, which I am going to post as separate question for. Be looking for it and give me your input.

parepat · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 10:26pm

If the player who signaled for the fair catch is prohibited from blocking, then he is essentially defenseless. Why would the kicker be able to hit a defenseless player. I would not have kick catch interference, but I probably would have a personal foul under 9-4-2-b.

Bob M. · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 26, 2005, 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by parepat
If the player who signaled for the fair catch is prohibited from blocking, then he is essentially defenseless. Why would the kicker be able to hit a defenseless player. I would not have kick catch interference, but I probably would have a personal foul under 9-4-2-b.

REPLY: He can ward off a blocker. He just can't initiate the block.

schwinn · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 26, 2005, 04:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MJT

Quote:

Originally posted by shave-tail
You can signal for a fair catch on any kick. The blocking by K is legal in both plays. Once the ball hits the ground the opportunity for a fair catch has ended. However, the receiving team can not advance the ball beyond the point of control nor can the player who signaled for the free catch block or basically participate in the the play until it's ended.

[Edited by shave-tail on Oct 25th, 2005 at 07:27 PM]

Although the FC will not be valid cuz the ball was grounded, the receiver who signaled is still given protection. Where does it say that his protection is terminated cuz the ball was grounded?

SECTION 5 FAIR CATCH
ART. 1 . . . Any receiver may signal for a fair catch while any legal kick is in flight. Any receiver who has given a valid or invalid fair-catch signal is prohibited from blocking until the kick has ended.
ART. 2 . . . It is a fair catch and the ball is dead if any receiver gives a valid fair-catch signal, as in Article 1, and he catches a free kick in or beyond the neutral zone to R's goal line, or a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone to R's goal line.
ART. 3 . . . Only the receiver who gives a valid signal is afforded protection. If, after a receiver signals, the catch is made by a teammate, it is not a fair catch but the ball becomes dead.

From what I am seeing, you should have KCI on the play you described. We had a very similar situation last night in a JV game, which I am going to post as separate question for. Be looking for it and give me your input.

I thought you could only have KCI while the ball is in flight.

mcrowder · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 26, 2005, 04:30pm

Schwinn is right... you need all 6 articles here, not just the 3. Art 6 tells you what K cannot do (the "protection" mentinoed in Art 3) while the BALL IS IN FLIGHT. Once it's grounded, all bets are off.

And while you're right that R can't block, he can certainly defend himself, and is not "defenseless". Also R is not barred from participating - he can certainly try to recover the ball. He just can't block anyone.

parepat · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 26, 2005, 09:05pm

I don't see in the rules or casebook that a player can defend himself after a fair catch signal. Does anyone have a cite?

I think that most of us agree that if the ball hit the ground ten yards away from the fair catch and the player just stood there and was hit we would have a flag (not KCI due to the grounded ball).

Thus, why does the player running toward the ball change things?

dumbref · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 27, 2005, 09:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
Schwinn is right... you need all 6 articles here, not just the 3. Art 6 tells you what K cannot do (the "protection" mentinoed in Art 3) while the BALL IS IN FLIGHT. Once it's grounded, all bets are off.

And while you're right that R can't block, he can certainly defend himself, and is not "defenseless". Also R is not barred from participating - he can certainly try to recover the ball. He just can't block anyone.

Thanks - that is what I was overlooking - "in flight". I knew within reason R could be blocked but could not find a reference in the book as to when.

mcrowder · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 27, 2005, 09:28am

parepat - where in the rulebook does it say that ANYONE can defend themselves when being blocked? It doesn't say that anywhere, but it doesn't say they can't - you obviously assume they can.

The rules specifically prohibit certain actions. If it's not prohibited, it's allowed. These rules prohibit the receiver from blocking. No reason to extend this to other actions that are not specifically prohibited.

booker227 · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 27, 2005, 03:20pm

The problem here is in the definition of ball in flight. Is the ball still in flight even after it has touched the ground? If so, then it is KKI on K. Because R is afforded protection after giving a valid fair catch signal. If you deem the ball grounded butloose,then all bets are off and K can block R from the ball.

Well, which is it?

Personally, I'm not going to flag anything here.