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Old Wed Oct 15, 2003, 07:43pm
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Following a safety, K1 free kicks from the 20. His low line-drive place kick strikes one of the five "front line" receivers and rebounds back over the kicking team, into and out of the endzone. I say this is a safety, my friends say touchback. Who is right?
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2003, 07:57pm
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Well, the first thing I would say is "Holy S---"... Did this actually happen..?

The force was supplied by K's kick, so I would agree with you and call it a safety...

That's gotta be a record... Safeties on back to back plays for the same team...
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2003, 08:10pm
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6-4 IF THE KICK BECOMES DEAD IN K S END ZONE

If the force is: The kick or any other new force by K. Then the ruling is: Safety, if the kick is out of bounds or K has possession, including when the ball is loose or Touchdown if R is in possession.

If the force is: A new force by R: Touchback, if the kick is out of bounds, or K has possession, including when the ball is loose or Touchdown if R is in possession.

As 6-2-6 states: The touching of a low scrimmage kick by any player is ignored if the touching is in or behind the expanded neutral zone. I would assume from this that touching beyond the expanded neutral zone is not ignored. Thus during a scrimmage kick an R player could be hit by a ball 5 yards beyond the LOS and the ball could bounce back into K's endzone. This would be a touchback as R forced it into K's endzone.

So by the same thought process I would award K a touchback as R forced the ball into K's endzone. I may be using an odd thought process but I still say it is a touchback.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2003, 08:25pm
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This is a free kick, so the "touching of a low scrimmage kick in flight" clause does not apply. What does apply (among other things) is 2-13 (definition of force) and 8-5 (force, safety, and touchback). The bottom line from those rules is that a new force can only be applied to a grounded kick. Presuming this kick did not hit the ground before it caromed off the R player, no new force has been applied. Therefore, K's kick is the force that "put" the ball behind the GL; you have a safety.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2003, 09:34pm
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Ok. I missapplied the term force on this one. My comparison above it wrong in that that touching only covers the possibility of K to recover the ball and get a 1-10.

8-5-3b It is a touchback when: Any scrimmage kick or free kick becomes dead on or behind Ks goal line with the ball in possession of K (including when the ball is declared dead with no player in possession) and the new force is R s muff or bat of the kick after it has touched the ground.
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Old Wed Oct 15, 2003, 10:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warrenkicker
8-5-3b It is a touchback when: Any scrimmage kick or free kick becomes dead on or behind Ks goal line with the ball in possession of K (including when the ball is declared dead with no player in possession) and the new force is R s muff or bat of the kick after it has touched the ground.
Doesn't sound like the kick touched the ground before touching R.
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Old Thu Oct 16, 2003, 02:51pm
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Wink

I would agree with you and PSU. The ball was not grounded. K kicked through his own EZ. Safety.
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Old Thu Oct 16, 2003, 10:52pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Warrenkicker
8-5-3b It is a touchback when: Any scrimmage kick or free kick becomes dead on or behind Ks goal line with the ball in possession of K (including when the ball is declared dead with no player in possession) and the new force is R s muff or bat of the kick after it has touched the ground.
Doesn't sound like the kick touched the ground before touching R.
Yep. That is the most important thing on this play.
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