Question on Free Kick

[DesertZebra]

I've seen a team place the ball next to the tee, huddle up and wait for the signal from the R. Once the whistle is blown the kicker will walk up to the ball to place the ball on the tee, but instead kick the ball to an unsuspecting team.

USC, yes?

[Welpe]

No, that is legal. There is not requirement for the ball to be on a tee for it to be legally kicked so the receiving team needs to be alert for a kick once the RFP is blown.

[DesertZebra]

Originally Posted by Welpe

No, that is legal. There is not requirement for the ball to be on a tee for it to be legally kicked so the receiving team needs to be alert for a kick once the RFP is blown.

Nope, it is USC - Intent to deceive. Much like the "Wrong ball, coach" play. Just because the RFP has blown doesn't mean all bets are off for deception. If the tee is being used as a decoy, intent to deceive is the call.

[ajmc]

I can't find any reference to the requirement of a kicking tee in NF 6.1 (Free Kicks). Nor is there any suggestion regarding a kicking tee in NF: 2.24.3, which defines a "Free Kick".

NF:2.24.5 describing a "kickoff" limits the type of kick to be used as either a "drop kick" or a "place kick".

NF:2.24.7, defines "a place kick" is a legal kick made while the ball is in a fixed position on the ground or on a kicking tee".

Just an observation, but there seems to be WAY TOO MANY attempts to blow things up into USC under some exaggerated concept of "Intent to Deceive". Football is all about deception, and the counter ability of being smart enough to avoid being deceived by gimmicks.

[DesertZebra]

2008 Rule Change, rule 9-9-4...

Rule 9-9-4 No player shall use a kicking tee in violation of Rule 1-3-4.
Rule 1-3-4 simply states that the tee can only elevate the lowest point of the ball no more than 2 inches above the ground.

Since the tee is not being used to elevate the ball, it's not being used in accordance to the rules, and should not be out on the field.
But I think the intent of those rules is to put an end to using tees improperly, but not for the case at hand. So...

Rule 1-1-6 A referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of good sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules.

[Welpe]

What was changed this year is the penalty for using an illegal tee. Note the rule says that a tee can only elevate a ball no more than 2 inches off the ground. In other words, a tee that elevates the lowest point of the ball more than 2 inches above the ground is illegal.

Per the definition of a legal kick, a tee is not required and there is nothing in the rules that specifies how the ball is placed on the tee. There are teams that put the ball sideways on a tee for a kick off. That is perfectly legal, so is kicking it directly off of the ground, or having it resting on the tee while also on the ground (for a free kick anyways).

Free kicks and what constitutes a legal kick are specifically covered in the rules, so I do not believe you have any basis for using 1-1-6 in ruling this USC.

[DesertZebra]

I beg to differ. Using a tee as a decoy is not covered in the rules, hence 1-1-6.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

2008 Rule Change, rule 9-9-4...

Rule 9-9-4 No player shall use a kicking tee in violation of Rule 1-3-4.
Rule 1-3-4 simply states that the tee can only elevate the lowest point of the ball no more than 2 inches above the ground.

Since the tee is not being used to elevate the ball, it's not being used in accordance to the rules, and should not be out on the field.

C'm'on, 1-3-4 just puts a ceiling, not a floor, on how high the tee can raise the ball off the ground; otherwise a rugby-style ring tee, which leaves the bottom of the ball touching the ground, would be illegal.

Meanwhile, AFAIK Fed has not extended to free kicks the prohibition on playing the ball while using verbal signals indicating not being ready.

But if anyone can put a kicking tee out there without using it, why couldn't team R also throw their kicking tee out there? And maybe a few tackling dummies, and play like Bobby Riggs used to play handicap tennis (with obstacles on his side of the net)?

Robert

[ajmc]

I'm not sure which code you are referring to, DesertZebra, but the notion that "Using a tee as a decoy is not covered in the rules, hence 1-1-6." is simply ridiculous.

[JamesBond]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

Nope, it is USC - Intent to deceive. Much like the "Wrong ball, coach" play. Just because the RFP has blown doesn't mean all bets are off for deception. If the tee is being used as a decoy, intent to deceive is the call.

Can someone give me a rule reference for "intent to deceive". I can't find the passage for that.
007

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

I've seen a team place the ball next to the tee, huddle up and wait for the signal from the R. Once the whistle is blown the kicker will walk up to the ball to place the ball on the tee, but instead kick the ball to an unsuspecting team.

USC, yes?

Normally you tell the kicker to hold up his hand to let the R know he is ready to kick, or, at least, you tell him that. Once the whistle blows the play clock takes over and there is 25 seconds to kick.

I would say USC as the kicker walking toward the ball and the motion of attempting to place the ball on the tee when a kick is imminent

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

I would say USC as the kicker walking toward the ball and the motion of attempting to place the ball on the tee when a kick is imminent

Huh. I was unaware of this. Which code, starting when, banned the old play of multiple K players approaching the ball and some of them drawing back before one of them finally kicks it? Which would seem to be USC by my understanding of what you've written.

Robert