Sayville NY Protest

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by daggo66

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

Here are my thoughts and what I practiced that day. With 59 seconds we knew it would be real close. I said to my umpire Joe, what do you think can we influence the clock?

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

At six seconds I flagged Sayville for delay of game and like I said earlier the clock wound down but I placed the time back on the clock.

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Here are my thoughts and what I practiced that day. With 59 seconds we knew it would be real close. I said to my umpire Joe, what do you think can we influence the clock?

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

At six seconds I flagged Sayville for delay of game and like I said earlier the clock wound down but I placed the time back on the clock.

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

[Standard disclaimer, official, but not the oblongate ball type]
Why would you try to influence the clock? Missing a call is not a mark on one's integrity, we all miss them them. But why would you blow the ready for play anytime but when the ball is ready for play in a close game?
________
EndlessJoy live

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by youngump

[Standard disclaimer, official, but not the oblongate ball type]
Why would you try to influence the clock? Missing a call is not a mark on one's integrity, we all miss them them. But why would you blow the ready for play anytime but when the ball is ready for play in a close game?

My point exactly. We did not try to influence the clock like in the 44-0 game, in fact, as I said we put time back on the clock which was the right thing to do.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

I've heard that the average amount of time from the end of a down to the RFP is about 12-15 seconds. That's why the new college timing of 40/25 really should not be that different of a pace than what they had before. If the previous down ended at 35-37 seconds, it would not have been unusual to mark it RFP at 20-25 seconds remaining. If you had it marked RFP in 6 seconds, you must have had a runner down on his own (no tacklers on him or other to unpile) with the U right there to spot the ball right away.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I've heard that the average amount of time from the end of a down to the RFP is about 12-15 seconds. That's why the new college timing of 40/25 really should not be that different of a pace than what they had before. If the previous down ended at 35-37 seconds, it would not have been unusual to mark it RFP at 20-25 seconds remaining. If you had it marked RFP in 6 seconds, you must have had a runner down on his own (no tacklers on him or other to unpile) with the U right there to spot the ball right away.

I agree. Perhaps that is your usual pace though Ed. Do you call a lot of delays of game through-out the season? If you do perhaps you could slow down your RFP through-out the entire game.

I also agree that we don't see everything. Even with 7 guys you don't see everything. Perspective limits us to usually two or three views of a play but sometimes it gets down to only one or maybe even none. I would bet that if you really looked at any game you were working that there is probably a time or two during the game where something could happen and nobody would see it. We work hard to limit those times but there is no guarantee that we can eliminate them.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

I agree. Perhaps that is your usual pace though Ed. Do you call a lot of delays of game through-out the season? If you do perhaps you could slow down your RFP through-out the entire game.

I also agree that we don't see everything. Even with 7 guys you don't see everything. Perspective limits us to usually two or three views of a play but sometimes it gets down to only one or maybe even none. I would bet that if you really looked at any game you were working that there is probably a time or two during the game where something could happen and nobody would see it. We work hard to limit those times but there is no guarantee that we can eliminate them.

Our RFP is usually 12-15 seconds which in this area is pretty fast and we know, if you want snaps we'll give them to you. The coaches have adapted and DOGs are less than .5/game for a season, we had two in this game and both against Sayville the last one and one at 3:12 which we told the QB as time to snap and he was looking at the clock.

Not to make excuses but we started 5-man this year and there are adjustments and I will be reviewing those for tomorrow's game.

[Theisey]

Ed, 12 to 15 seconds from the end of the last play? Based on a 40 second playclock in the big leagues, your max would be dead on a for a full 25 at that point.

What I'd really like to know is your feel for how long you have been taking from the point the ball is spotted before the RFP?

We've been using 3 to 4 seconds all year any have had little problems. That point is covered in our meeting with the head coach so they know.. we're not waiting around for them. it will be consistent all game long. Ball spotted. tick tick tick then the RFP.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Theisey

Ed, 12 to 15 seconds from the end of the last play? Based on a 40 second playclock in the big leagues, your max would be dead on a for a full 25 at that point.

What I'd really like to know is your feel for how long you have been taking from the point the ball is spotted before the RFP?

My umpire usually spots the ball within 5 seconds if in the middle and about 8-10 from the side zone.

We've been using 3 to 4 seconds all year any have had little problems. That point is covered in our meeting with the head coach so they know.. we're not waiting around for them. it will be consistent all game long. Ball spotted. tick tick tick then the RFP.

I let the coaches know before the game. Some other officials don't move the game that fast so early on I remind them especially being a DOG slows the game down.

[Forksref]

I've never been concerned with or counted the number of seconds after the ball became dead for the ball to be declared RFP. I signal RFP when it is READY FOR PLAY. No sooner nor later. The moment the ball is placed on the ground AND I see that my crew and the chains are ready, I declare it RFP. This time will vary, I am sure.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Our RFP is usually 12-15 seconds which in this area is pretty fast and we know, if you want snaps we'll give them to you. The coaches have adapted and DOGs are less than .5/game for a season, we had two in this game and both against Sayville the last one and one at 3:12 which we told the QB as time to snap and he was looking at the clock.

Not to make excuses but we started 5-man this year and there are adjustments and I will be reviewing those for tomorrow's game.

I will look at our recent films at some point and figure out what we do.

I know I am patient once the ball is spotted. I'll look to both wings and the box to make sure they're all set, which takes about 3-5 seconds.

The chain crew was slow last night and they commented on my pace on first downs, which is no different than any other down. They were just slower. I do know that I got a compliment at halftime from someone working in the press box saying that we had very good pace out there.

At the end of the day, the teams adapt to the crew. We've not had a DOG in 4-5 weeks on Friday night. And with a 35-20 game last night (8 touchdowns) with homecoming (20 minute halftime), we still finished the game in 2:10.

[Anonymous67]

RFP is three ticks from when the ball is set. Huddle, no huddle, hurry-up, makes no difference.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Anonymous67

RFP is three ticks from when the ball is set. Huddle, no huddle, hurry-up, makes no difference.

I assume you wait a little longer if there is a delay in getting the down box and/or chains set? This also assumes no other administrative delay (official getting into position, player equipment, etc.). Or do you have your umpire wait for all that is done before setting the ball?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Anonymous67

RFP is three ticks from when the ball is set. Huddle, no huddle, hurry-up, makes no difference.

I assume you mean personally and not some absolute standard. I know I'm a bit slower than that normally.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

That is way to fast to blow the RFP. That is only 4-6 seconds after the down ended. I understand that you don't want to deprive B from a chance at winning but you don't want to hurry up and deprive A of a sure victory.

Dick Honig would blow the RFP 13 seconds after the down ended. That would put you at 24-22 seconds left and A would have never snapped the ball. Check ou the youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YladJ-etR4

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

Sorry to divert from the officiating perspective, but just gotta complain from a coaching perspective. You might want to quick kick with 60 seconds left, but with 6 secs. that's just crazy. Too much can go wrong.

What you do is try to run that 6 secs. off the clock running, or standing with tight pass protection. If the circumstances were a little different a retreat to the end zone might be in order. Whatever, the possibility of leaving a second on the clock with your opponents to snap the ball is better than producing a loose ball and scramble, which is what you get even if you execute the quick kick well.

Robert