Player going OB

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

Interesting question, but I believe for NCAA the pushed out and return vs. stays out rule is for elligiblity on a kick/pass.
In this case it is a running play, and I beleive there is no restriction on the player.
As long has he was fully inbounds before he touched the ball. If he was still on the line the ball would obviously become dead.

I don't believe you are correct. Someone PLEASE correct me if I am wrong and he is right. Pretty sure HS and NCAA agree...

[OverAndBack]

I try not to get my head too clouded with NCAA and NFL rules during our season because it confuses me.

I know in NFHS, he's done if he goes out. He can't come back in and participate. And picking up the ball, that there is participating for sure.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I try not to get my head too clouded with NCAA and NFL rules during our season because it confuses me.

I know in NFHS, he's done if he goes out. He can't come back in and participate. And picking up the ball, that there is participating for sure.

Yes but remember that a player can be both in bounds and out of bounds at the same time. For example, in scrambling for a ball, a player is lying on the ground and his legs are out of bounds and the rest of his body is inbounds. He is out of bounds to the point where if he touches the ball, it also becomes out of bounds, but he is inbounds to the point that he can legally participate and touch the ball.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jim D

Yes but remember that a player can be both in bounds and out of bounds at the same time. For example, in scrambling for a ball, a player is lying on the ground and his legs are out of bounds and the rest of his body is inbounds. He is out of bounds to the point where if he touches the ball, it also becomes out of bounds, but he is inbounds to the point that he can legally participate and touch the ball.

If he's out of bounds, then he hasn't come back in bounds and participated, has he.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If he's out of bounds, then he hasn't come back in bounds and participated, has he.

That's my point - because he touched the line he is technically out of bounds. But I don't think you can call it illegal participation even if he impedes another player because he doesn't come back in - he's just laying there half in and half out. The rules in NCAA and NFHS regarding out of bounds aren't written very well so they allows odd situations like this.

[Forksref]

I am not seeing where the touching of the ball by a player who was previously OOB causes the ball to become dead.

The IP flag is thrown where he returned inbounds.

[mbyron]

It's not illegal participation until it is: a player out of bounds grabbing the ball is not participating, whether he was standing there whent he play started, got pushed out, or ran out by himself.

Now, if he picks up the ball and returns inbounds, NOW he's participating (possibly illegally).

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I am not seeing where the touching of the ball by a player who was previously OOB causes the ball to become dead.

Not previously OOB, no. Half-in, half-out, I'd say, yeah. But I'd let it play out if a guy came back in and touched the ball.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by Jim D

Yes but remember that a player can be both in bounds and out of bounds at the same time.

For example, in scrambling for a ball, a player is lying on the ground and his legs are out of bounds and the rest of his body is inbounds. He is out of bounds to the point where if he touches the ball, it also becomes out of bounds, but he is inbounds to the point that he can legally participate and touch the ball.

....which makes the ball dead.

His particular brand of "out of boundness" has no bearing on anything until he does something, does it?

In the original example, if a player goes out of bounds on his own, let's say the ball then hops over the sideline and touches him. The ball is dead because it touched something that is out of bounds.

I'd submit that in your example, you might be able to say that the player on the ground with his legs out of bounds has "gone out out bounds" and if he participates, it's illegal participation, couldn't you? I mean, in a scrum situation, you're probably not going to be so esoteric about it and throw your hat because #74 has his legs out of bounds and his upper body in bounds, but I suppose you could.

To my way of interpreting it (and I'm not a rules interpreter), you're in bounds or you're out of bounds. You may have no impact on the play by virtue of that standing, but I can't see how you can be both simultaneously.

[GoodScout]

Let's assume that it's a defender that goes OOB on his own volition chasing the fumble, and then steps back inbounds and recovers it. My take would be that the ball would be dead as soon as he touched it, you'd have illegal participation, and you'd have fun explaining to the defensive coach that since neither team gained possession before the ball became dead, it goes back to the offense -- with the IP penalty tacked on.

[jjrye22]

NCAA rules regarding players OOB:
On a run or loose ball play there is no restriction that a player (O or D) can be OOB and come back in. Only the following rules relate to players OOB and elligibilty issues.

6.1.2.f - A Team A player who goes out of bounds during a free kick down may not return inbounds during the down (Exception: This does not apply to
a Team A player who is blocked out of bounds and attempts to return inbounds immediately) [S19].

6.3.12 No Team A player who goes out of bounds during a scrimmage kick down may return inbounds during the down (Exception: This does not apply to a Team A player who is blocked out of bounds and attempts to return inbounds immediately).

7.1.5.b. When the snap starts:
1. No player may be in or beyond the neutral zone at the snap.
2. All players must be inbounds.

Eligibility Lost by Going Out of Bounds
7.3.4. No eligible offensive receiver who goes out of bounds during
a down shall touch a legal forward pass in the field of play or end zones or while airborne until it has been touched by an opponent or official (A.R.
7-3-4-I-III).
Exception: This does not apply to an eligible offensive player who
attempts to return inbounds immediately after being blocked out of bounds
by an opponent (A.R. 7-3-4-IV).




By the way: about players in and out of bounds at the same time:
Player Out of Bounds
4.2.1. a. A player or an airborne player is out of bounds when any
part of his person touches anything, other than another player or game
official, on or outside a boundary line (A.R. 4-2-1-I and II).

[sloth]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

Let's assume that it's a defender that goes OOB on his own volition chasing the fumble, and then steps back inbounds and recovers it. My take would be that the ball would be dead as soon as he touched it, you'd have illegal participation, and you'd have fun explaining to the defensive coach that since neither team gained possession before the ball became dead, it goes back to the offense -- with the IP penalty tacked on.

I agree on the illegal participation..however, why kill the play? Unless he is still OOB when he recovers (or touches) the ball; I'd drop the flag and let the play finish.

[GoodScout]

Originally Posted by sloth

I agree on the illegal participation..however, why kill the play? Unless he is still OOB when he recovers (or touches) the ball; I'd drop the flag and let the play finish.

Oh, I wouldn't kill it instantly. Barring any other live-ball fouls, wouldn't you'd still enforce the defense's IP from either the point of touching or from the previous spot depending on whether the recovery took place ahead of or behind the LOS?