substitution vs. participation, a condensed version

[grantsrc]

Due to the length and ridiculousness of the other thread, I thought it would be wise to start another thread summarizing the rules and case plays that come into play in these types of sitatuations. This if for federation rules and is based federation mechanics.

First, you must look at the definitions of what is participation and substitution.

2-1 ART. 1 . . . A player is one of the 22 team members who is designated to start either half of the game or who subsequently replaces another player. A player continues to be a player until a substitute enters the field and indicates to the player that he is replaced, or when the substitute otherwise becomes a player.

2-32 ART. 15 . . .

A substitute is a team member who may replace a player or fill a player vacancy. A substitute becomes a player when he enters the field and communicates with a teammate or an official, enters the huddle, is positioned in a formation or participates in the play. An entering substitute is not considered to be a player for encroachment restrictions until he is on his team’s side of the neutral zone. A team member entering the field to fill a player vacancy remains a substitute until he is on his team’s side of the neutral zone.

Next, you have to address the issue of counting. Ideally you should have your count done early in the dead ball period. The earlier your count is done, the more you can focus on the other stuff you are responsible at that time. Counting responsibilities vary depending on your area and the number of people on your crew. In our area, HL, LJ, and B all count B in 5 man, and HL and LJ, counting B in four. A is counted by R and U in both 4 and 5 man.

Let's take a look at what is a substitution is and the rules related to it. for brevity, I am not going to copy and paste all of 3-7, but basically any number of players can be replaced and once they are notified that they are replaced, they should leave the field immediately (normally immediately is viewed as within 3-5 seconds). Substitution can only be done during the dead ball period and shall be done in a manner not intended to deceive the opponent.

Now there are numerous other factors to consider when deciding to call illegal substition or illegal participation. These factors are outlined in the case book. They are:

3.7 COMMENT:

A procedure has been adopted to provide an equitable penalty as it relates to illegal substitution. The following are examples of the most common situations and rulings:

1. If a replaced player or substitute attempts to leave the field, but does not get off prior to the snap, the foul is considered as having occurred simultaneously with the snap and the penalty is enforced from the previous spot. (3-7-4; 10-4-2a)
2. If a replaced player does not leave the field immediately, it is a dead-ball, illegal-substitution foul. (3-7-1)
3. If a replaced player or substitute goes off the field on the wrong side of the field during the down, it is an illegal substitution (live-ball foul at snap). (10-4-4)
4. If an entering substitute is not on his team’s side of the neutral zone at the snap, illegal substitution is considered to have occurred simultaneously with the snap. If he then participates, it becomes a live-ball foul, illegal participation. (3-7-6; 9-6-4c)

5. When a replaced player or substitute leaves on the wrong side of the field or goes across the end line prior to the snap, it is illegal substitution. (3-7-2; 10-4-4)

6. If a replaced player substitute enters the field during the down, but does not participate, it is a foul for illegal substitution, a 5-yard nonplayer foul. (3-7-6; 10-4-5)

In addition, the following chart should help officials distinguish the actions of various individuals who enter the field, during the down, but do not participate.

So to sum this up, if 12 players participate during the down, regardless of when the official completes his count, it is a live ball foul for illegal participation. If an official counts 12 players on the field during a dead ball period and sees no one making an effort to leave the field, kill the play and it is a dead ball foul for illegal substitution. If the 12th is making an effort to leave the field, it is a live ball foul for illegal substitution. In many areas, there are prevailing philosophies that say that a player has "left the field" if they are behind the official or outside the numbers and thus they pass on calling anything. That's up to your officials or state association. If in question, shut the play down prior to allowing the ball becoming live and get an accurate count.

I think the following case book play is a perfect example related to the other thread:

3.7.1 SITUATION B: A number of team substitutes enter the field between downs. The officials do not recognize that one replaced player does not leave the field immed iately. When the ball is snapped: (a) B12 is attempting to get off the field, or (b) A12 is in the formation as an extra lineman. RULING: In (a), it is an illegal substitution foul and in (b) it is illegal participation. COMMENT: In a related situation, if the covering official’s count of players has determined there are more than 11 prior to the snap, a dead-ball illegal substitution foul should be charged since a replaced player(s) did not leave immediately. However, if the official’s count is not completed before the snap is imminent or if the substitution has not been monitored, it becomes illegal participation at the snap if more than 11 are in the formation. Each team is responsible for substituting legally and for replaced players to leave immediately as required. (3-7-4; 9-6-4c)

I'm sure there are avenues I overlooked. Thoughts?

[JRutledge]

That's a condensed version?

Peace

[grantsrc]

Compared to the 12 pages of the other thread, surprisingly yes, that's condensed! Sans the urinating, of course.

[kdf5]

Geez, Grant, posting all that makes way too much sense and is not nearly as fun as arguing with a sick mind. However, I will play the devil's advocate over one point you made and that is when you said "If in question, shut the play down prior to allowing the ball becoming live and get an accurate count." My problem with this is that I did that once.

A had scored and was attempting a two pointer. They ran guys in quickly hoping to catch B off guard. I thought I had 12 (counting A as the R) and was in the process of my second count when the ball was snapped. I flagged and whistled thinking I had 12, but counted again and there were only 11. By shutting it down I screwed A out of a legitimate attempt at a try. So, is this a poor mechanic on my part? The rules say it's IS until the ball is snapped and IP after, providing rules coverage for all contingencies. There's nothing mechanically that says to shut it down if I'm unsure. How would others have handled it?

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Geez, Grant, posting all that makes way too much sense and is not nearly as fun as arguing with a sick mind. However, I will play the devil's advocate over one point you made and that is when you said "If in question, shut the play down prior to allowing the ball becoming live and get an accurate count." My problem with this is that I did that once.

A had scored and was attempting a two pointer. They ran guys in quickly hoping to catch B off guard. I thought I had 12 (counting A as the R) and was in the process of my second count when the ball was snapped. I flagged and whistled thinking I had 12, but counted again and there were only 11. By shutting it down I screwed A out of a legitimate attempt at a try. So, is this a poor mechanic on my part? The rules say it's IS until the ball is snapped and IP after, providing rules coverage for all contingencies. There's nothing mechanically that says to shut it down if I'm unsure. How would others have handled it?

Maybe I should have said something like- "If you count 12 more than once and still aren't sure, shut the play down prior to the ball becoming live to get an accurate count." If you count 11 then, I don't think there's an issue. In your example, A was using substitution to create a distinct disadvantage for B. In NCAA we have rules that prevent that from happening, but not in Fed. But I really don't think any harm is created when you stop the play to get an accurate count every once in a while. As all of us know, sometimes it takes more than one count, sometimes even two, to verify how many you have on the field.

[daggo66]

Do not shut it down unless you are sure. If the coach wants to argue the 15 instead of 5, he only has himself to blame. Not only did he succeed in confusing the defense but it made it more difficult to count by running everyone in and out. He makes the mistake in this situation, not the official.