substitution vs. participation, a condensed version

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Geez, Grant, posting all that makes way too much sense and is not nearly as fun as arguing with a sick mind. However, I will play the devil's advocate over one point you made and that is when you said "If in question, shut the play down prior to allowing the ball becoming live and get an accurate count." My problem with this is that I did that once.

A had scored and was attempting a two pointer. They ran guys in quickly hoping to catch B off guard. I thought I had 12 (counting A as the R) and was in the process of my second count when the ball was snapped. I flagged and whistled thinking I had 12, but counted again and there were only 11. By shutting it down I screwed A out of a legitimate attempt at a try. So, is this a poor mechanic on my part? The rules say it's IS until the ball is snapped and IP after, providing rules coverage for all contingencies. There's nothing mechanically that says to shut it down if I'm unsure. How would others have handled it?

Maybe I should have said something like- "If you count 12 more than once and still aren't sure, shut the play down prior to the ball becoming live to get an accurate count." If you count 11 then, I don't think there's an issue. In your example, A was using substitution to create a distinct disadvantage for B. In NCAA we have rules that prevent that from happening, but not in Fed. But I really don't think any harm is created when you stop the play to get an accurate count every once in a while. As all of us know, sometimes it takes more than one count, sometimes even two, to verify how many you have on the field.