Clock status after illegal forward pass.

[verticalStripes]

Fed Rules:

3rd and 5 on B's 10 yard line. The score is A=6, B=7 in the 4th quarter. The game clock is running with four seconds remaining at the snap. QB A11 receives the snap in shotgun formation. A11 spikes the ball forward into the ground to save time. There are 2 seconds remaining when the ball hits the ground. After enforcing the intentional grounding penalty at B's 15 yardline, when does the clock start?

[NM_Ref]

maybe someone can correct me if i'm wrong. i read somewhere that to determine the status of the clock, you go by the previous play. if it was running, you run it before snap, otherwise wait until after snap?

[JRutledge]

I believe it would depend on what the Referee wants to do. The Referee could start the clock on the ready according to 3-4-6. This is a classic situation where the Referee could do just that.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by verticalStripes

2nd (OP=3rd) and 5 on B's 10 yard line. The score is A=6, B=7 in the 4th quarter. The game clock is running with four seconds remaining at the snap. QB A11 receives the snap in shotgun formation. A11 spikes the ball forward into the ground to save time. There are 2 seconds remaining when the ball hits the ground. After enforcing the intentional grounding penalty at B's 15 yardline, when does the clock start?

The OP calls for it to be the next-to-last down, which in Canadian ball, is second down. I will adjust the situation in that regard.

CANADIAN RULING:

The passer spiking the ball doesn't meet either of the deliberate grounding criterion, so the play results in an incomplete pass. Result: 3D/5 @ B-10. Since we're inside the 3-minute warning, clock on the snap.

[FTVMartin]

NF 3-4-3

The clock shall start with the snap ...if the clock was stopped because

e. a legal or illiegal forward pass is incomplete.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

NF 3-4-3

The clock shall start with the snap ...if the clock was stopped because

e. a legal or illiegal forward pass is incomplete.

FTV check out 3-4-6 When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped...in my game the clock starts on the ready

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

NF 3-4-3

The clock shall start with the snap ...if the clock was stopped because

e. a legal or illiegal forward pass is incomplete.

Originally Posted by cmathews

FTV check out 3-4-6 When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped...in my game the clock starts on the ready

Just trying to understand... the rule says to start on the snap, but you do what you want, and start on the ready if you feel that a team conserved time illegally?

[cdoug]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Just trying to understand... the rule says to start on the snap, but you do what you want, and start on the ready if you feel that a team conserved time illegally?

Yes, since the QB is in shotgun formation he cannot legally ground the ball to conserve time (7.5.2 Exception: It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap). As noted being able to start the clock on the ready is allowed per 3.4.6

[bossman72]

This was a trick by my high school coach (but the opposite). If we were ahead, we would let the play clock run down (while the game clock was running) and false start. Refs that were not wise as to what was going on would run the clock on the ready and we would eat up the clock and win the game.

However, some refs would start it on the snap, thus negating our plan.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bossman72

This was a trick by my high school coach (but the opposite). If we were ahead, we would let the play clock run down (while the game clock was running) and false start. Refs that were not wise as to what was going on would run the clock on the ready and we would eat up the clock and win the game.

However, some refs would start it on the snap, thus negating our plan.

This is why I like the Canadian ruling better: the defense has the choice of whether to run the clock or not, not the Referee.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by NM_Ref

maybe someone can correct me if i'm wrong. i read somewhere that to determine the status of the clock, you go by the previous play. if it was running, you run it before snap, otherwise wait until after snap?

REPLY: Absolutely not. You never go back to the prior play (one before the play with the foul) to determine clock status. You use the last play (the one where the foul occurred) to determine when the clock next starts. Though the clock would typically start on the snap (incomplete pass), you should follow the advice of cdoug in his post and start it on the ready.