What's your ruling?

[Bob M.]

I posted this on the Fed website. Might as well post it here too...

PLAY: A leads 7-6 with 0:04 remaining in the 4th quarter, 3rd and 5 from A's 20. Team A is illegally in motion at the snap. A11 runs to A's 25 where he fumbles. B10 picks up the loose ball and runs to A's 3 where he is tackled. During B10's run, B8 blocks A3 in the back at A's 4 yardline. Time expires during the down. RULING: ??

[daggo66]

I'll take a shot. This is off the cuff wothout looking it up first. It would appear that the "clean hands" rule would apply. In order for B to maintain possession they would have to decline the penalty against A and accept the penalty against themselves. 10 yards from the spot of the foul making it B's ball at the A14. Since a penalty was accepted we must play one untimed down. B takes a knee and it's over. The other option is for B to accept the penalty on A giving A an untimed down from the 25.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by daggo66

I'll take a shot. This is off the cuff wothout looking it up first. It would appear that the "clean hands" rule would apply. In order for B to maintain possession they would have to decline the penalty against A and accept the penalty against themselves. 10 yards from the spot of the foul making it B's ball at the A14. Since a penalty was accepted we must play one untimed down. B takes a knee and it's over. The other option is for B to accept the penalty on A giving A an untimed down from the 25.

REPLY: daggo66...B is trailing in the game so they wouldn't be taking a knee.

[ajmc]

I believe if, for whatever reason, "B" were to accept A's foul, that would consttitute a double foul and the game would be over.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I believe if, for whatever reason, "B" were to accept A's foul, that would consttitute a double foul and the game would be over.

REPLY: Not true...a double foul requires an untimed down, doesn't it? And why would B want that anyway since they're trailing in the game.

[boboman316]

Bob,

I'm thinking the same thing as Drago. Since B got the ball with clean hands, they would decline the penalty by A. B would be penalized 10 yards from the 4, making it's 1st and 10 from the 14 with one untimed down to play. B would go for the end zone. BUT since B was in possession of the final play, and they committed the foul, should their be an untimed down?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

I posted this on the Fed website. Might as well post it here too...

PLAY: A leads 7-6 with 0:04 remaining in the 4th quarter, 3rd and 5 from A's 20. Team A is illegally in motion at the snap. A11 runs to A's 25 where he fumbles. B10 picks up the loose ball and runs to A's 3 where he is tackled. During B10's run, B8 blocks A3 in the back at A's 4 yardline. Time expires during the down. RULING: ??

If A is leading, then B wants to prolong the game as long as possible, in order for a chance to win the game. I think that's true in all codes.

CANADIAN RULING:

Since B fouled before any B score (this ruling also works if B did score), they run the risk of A declining the B foul if B were to decline the A illegal motion, thus ending the game.

So, B would have to accept the A foul to prolong the game. A will then accept the B foul. The difference is 5 yards in A's favour, which yields A 1D/10 @ A25, for one untimed down. A would just "take a knee" to win the game, which is something they might not have been able to do in the original play, since that knee might have taken less than 4 seconds, which would give B one more play, in the red zone no less.

Edit: In Canada, a dual minor foul is administered and balanced from the POA of the 1st foul. In this case, it is the P(revious) LS.

[kdf5]

10-2-2 . . . If each team fouls during a down in which there is a change of team
possession and the play does not have a post-scrimmage kick foul, the team last
gaining possession may retain the ball, provided:
a. the foul by the team last gaining possession is not prior to the final change
of possession, and
b. the team last gaining possession declines the penalty for its opponent’s
foul(s), other than a nonplayer or unsportsmanlike foul. In this case, the team that was not last in possession has no penalty options until the team last in possession has made its penalty decision on the fouls prior to the change of possession. After that decision by the team last in possession, the team not last in possession may decline or accept the foul by the team last in possession or choose which foul to have enforced in the case that the team last in possession committed more than one foul following the change.

B gets to decline A's penalty then A gets to decline B's penalty, game over.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Well...someone has seen the 2008 rule book...

[Welpe]

Ah ha they clarified the wording for this year. I had not realized that. Great news.

[daggo66]

First, reading for comprehension helps, a lot. Second, I knew it was't as simple as it looked, otherwise Bob wouldn't have posted it, but I knew I would learn something by giving it a shot. Thanks Bob.