A Challenge!

[cmathews]

in a nutshell. All live ball fouls except 1 are enforced from the basic spot. That one foul that is not enforced from the basic spot is a foul by the offense which occurs behind the basic spot.

The basic spot for a running play is the end of the run
The basic spot for a loose ball play is the previous spot (usually limited to free kicks and pass plays)
The basic spot for a PSK enforcement is the end of the kick.

There is 1 notable exception. Roughing the passer is tacked on to the end of the run even though it occurs during a loose ball play.

These are the basics of the all but one principle

so endeth the lesson LOL

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by cmathews

These are the basics of the all but one principle

That's a lot better than what I had. I thought the all-but-one meant everyone understood it but me.

[ajmc]

The above summary sounds great. In layman's terms you might consider; when the offense fouls behind the basic spot (whichever one that is) they didn't earn getting to that basic spot, without the benefit of that foul, so they're only entitled to where they reached, before they fouled, which would be the spot of the foul.

[Bob M.]

REPLY:JR...I realize that cmathews and ajmc both gave very good descriptions. And I absolutely love SC Ump's description. I might use that in training sessions. Thought I'd just try it a slightly different way to see if I could help.

Enforcement of live ball fouls hinges on something referred to as the “all-but-one” principle. It based upon the fundamental principles that (1) no team should benefit from committing a foul, and (2) a team that fouls during a down should be entitled to whatever benefit (yardage, for example) they might have achieved legally prior to committing their foul(s), but nothing more. The "all-but-one" principle provides the best (though not perfect) means for doing that.


“All-but-one” Principle
The “all-but-one” principle determines the actual spot of enforcement and is based upon knowing WHO committed the foul (offense or defense) and WHERE the foul was committed relative to the basic spot of enforcement. Here’s what it says:


If the foul was by….…and it occurred........................then enforce the penalty from…
the Defense...................Beyond the Basic Spot..............the Basic Spot
the Defense...................Behind the Basic Spot...............the Basic Spot
the Offense...................Beyond the Basic Spot...............the Basic Spot
the Offense...................Behind the Basic Spot................the Spot of the Foul

So, all situations except one are enforced from the basic spot, hence the name “all-but-one.” The lone exception is a foul by the offense that occurs behind the basic spot. Such a foul will be enforced from the spot of the foul. For that reason, such a foul is often referred to as a “spot foul.” That’s why it’s important that on player fouls, your flag is not just thrown into the air, but rather is thrown directly to the spot of the foul or at least dropped on the yard line where the foul occurs.

[a4caster]

Sometimes used example is whatever helps them/hurts them the most. This is not a perfect example, as there are times where the opposite happens. But for the most part, it works. CIP; running play, A clips, runner goes 30 yds. You wouldn't subtract it from the end of the run; hit them where it hurts the most - the spot of the foul. The only time this doesn't work is on a pass play where B fouls (hold, BIB) and the pass is made over 10 yds. PS is the LOS, so either take the penalty or decline, it's still usually a 1st down. Only exception is if it was down and +10 yds. Then, you get to replay the down. So there are not perfect templates, but game knowledge comes into play alot. Give it time; it took me a long time to get the hang of it as well. Once you do, it all clicks!

[Bob M.]

REPLY: No offense a4caster, but I cringe whenever I hear someone recommend usng a "Hit them where it hurts the most" philosophy as a shortcut to proper application of the all-but-one philosophy. Consider:

Play 1: A22 runs to B's 45 where he is tackled. B12 commits a personal foul during the run at B's 40.

Play 2: A, 3-10 from midfield. Back A2 fumbles at A's 45. While the ball is rolling loose, guard A65 holds at A's 48. A13 recovers and is down at A's 40.

Play 3: During a scrimmage kick, R15 holds downfield at R's 30. R22 fields the punt at R's 20 near the far sideline. He circles back toward the opposite side of the field where he's tackled at R's 15.

In all three of these cases, someone following the "Hit them where it hurts the most" philosophy would invariably get it wrong.

[a4caster]

Very true, and that is why I said that it wasn't a perfect fit, but a large part of the time, it does help get things done. But, I see where you are coming from that if someone does not learn the correct way, they will never learn the correct way.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: No offense a4caster, but I cringe whenever I hear someone recommend usng a "Hit them where it hurts the most" philosophy as a shortcut to proper application of the all-but-one philosophy.

I agree. If you really hit them where (i.e. going back to when) it hurt them the most, you'd go back to the bus they came in on, deeming that they never arrived, and they'd forfeit the game.

But seriously folks, all-but-one (or as it used to be called, three-and-one) is a reasonable compromise (one of several possible) between ease of administration and equity. When the defense fouls during a run, it's usually a safety-affecting thing, but when it affects the game tactically, it'd be difficult to impossible to figure out how they hurt the offense yardage wise, so the entirety of the associated run counts. When the offense fouls during a run, it's more often tactical in some way, and the enforcement approximates the idea that the player who was fouled against might've made the tackle right there. But sometimes the spot of a foul doesn't have that relationship to the associated run, and enforcing from that spot, if behind where the run ended, is pretty arbitrary.

The Canadian PBH (point ball held -- at the moment of the foul) spot I think does better w.r.t. the equities, but is harder to administer because it may not be in the official's view at that instant.

Some enforcement spots are very much divorced from the effect a foul might've had on play. There've been 2 philosophies regarding how to penalize non-deliberate pass interference by the defense: use the spot where the interference occurred, or the previous spot. Neither is much of a remedy in a case where a high lobbed pass is accompanied by interference far short of where the ball came down, and where the receiver might otherwise have been able to run to catch it. But only rugby uses the spot where the ball lands as an enforcement point for an equivalent type of interference (on a kick).

Robert