Great, I have to deal with A-11

[daggo66]

We just had our state interpreter meeting tonight. MD is taking the stance that it is legal, while acknowledging that other states are not. DC is not allowing it and NC is being very strict. We were told that NC will levy an USC on the entire coaching staff if they use it. If they use it twice in the same game they will eject the entire coaching staff. MD says they are going with the NFHS ruling that it is legal. One of the teams I cover has been running the spread very successfully for several years. They lost the state final game last year. I have them in my first scrimmage on the 23rd where they plan on unveiling the A-11 in a scrimmage against the team they lost the state final to. I also have them in the first game of the year. It will certainly be interesting.

[Theisey]

What NFHS ruling?
As far the we know, they have been silent on this in 2008. Not even a peep saying no rule is being violated.

If you have something direct from the NF, please share it with us.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by daggo66

DC is not allowing it and NC is being very strict. We were told that NC will levy an USC on the entire coaching staff if they use it. If they use it twice in the same game they will eject the entire coaching staff.

Yes, the A-11 is illegal in NC.

Yes, the penalty will be unsportsmanlike conduct.

No, the foul is not assessed to the entire coaching staff. Completely and totally false.

[Robert Goodman]

And how in NC are they rewriting the rule to distinguish the illegal A-11 from any other use of the existing numbering exception?

[BktBallRef]

The decision by several states to rule the A-11 illegal has been discussed in several different threads on several different boards. Look it up if you're interested. I only posted here to clarify the misinformation that was given to daggo66.

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Theisey

What NFHS ruling?
As far the we know, they have been silent on this in 2008. Not even a peep saying no rule is being violated.

If you have something direct from the NF, please share it with us.

If no rule is violated, then why state that something is legal? I'm just relaying information that I received directly from my SI. According to him the NFHS has told the state interpreters that the A11 is not illegal. Where he got the NC thing about the coaching staff, I couldn't tell you, but that is what he told us. Bottom line is that I will soon see this thing in person. It should be interesting since this team already runs a no huddle spread.

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by daggo66

If no rule is violated, then why state that something is legal? I'm just relaying information that I received directly from my SI. According to him the NFHS has told the state interpreters that the A11 is not illegal. Where he got the NC thing about the coaching staff, I couldn't tell you, but that is what he told us. Bottom line is that I will soon see this thing in person. It should be interesting since this team already runs a no huddle spread.

First of all, a no huddle spread offense is not the A11 offense. NH/Spreads have been formations used for years. Nothing unusual with regards to officiating that formation.

Because a few states are saying the formation is illegal is all the more reason to the NF to step up to the plate and tell the rest of the "united" state associations that this A11 IS or ISNOT legal. That's why!

[GoodScout]

Back to daggo66's point, I notice that even the best teams that run the offense often are guilty of illegal formations, ineligibles downfield, etc.

Were I in your shoes (and thank you, GHSA, that I'm not!) I would work hard to make sure I flagged each and every time you have an ineligible downfield, 6 on the line, etc. If you and your crew even think you have such a foul, go ahead and drop the flag and talk out what each of you saw after the play's over. If you have to wave it off, no big deal. But if a team wins with an A-11, you want to make sure they won because of their ability, not because they gained an unfair advantage because your crew let them get away with fouls.

I still think they're exploiting a gap in the NHFS rules, and I feel comfortable NHFS will fix it next year (shame on them for not doing it this year). Any coach that tries this is just doing his program a disservice, because next year he'll have to teach them a totally new offense.

[daggo66]

I plan on approaching this scrimmage with the mindset of making sure they are at the letter of the law, thus making it easier on all concerned when the season opens. I do believe the NFHS will make a direct statement regarding this next year. In the case of the team in my area, it really isn't a matter or learning something new. I've made the case from day 1 that this is not a new offense. It is a new formation. The offense is the same west coast spread that has been around for years. The difference is the numbering and the shift to the line. This coach is a pro at the no huddle spread. All he is doing is adding new formations and shifts. He is not changing his offense and he will not change it next year if the rule changes, he just will have to wear legal numbers.

[Warrenkicker]

So we know that A-11 will not be allowed in at least three states. Let's hear from some of the people in those states. Is the A-11 offense illegal for all downs or is it illegal for scrimmage downs where it is obvious that a kick won't be attempted? Are you using the college rule?

If the individual states have not clarified this statement then they have basically stated that the numbering exception is not legal this year. I don't think they wanted to do that so what exactly was said.

[daggo66]

You need to clarify NFHS states. So far I only know of NC and the District of Columbia. Texas uses NCAA rules.

[BktBallRef]

Warren, the A-11 is illegal in NC. It makes no difference what the down is.

daggo66, you need to read more forums. The A-11 is illegal in NC, GA, LA, WV and the District of Columbia. There maybe others that we are not aware of.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Warren, the A-11 is illegal in NC. It makes no difference what the down is.

I'll play devil's advocate then. Say a team comes up to the LOS on 4th down with 11 players wearing eligible numbers and gets into punt formation. These are all athletes so they are all wearing eligible numbers. What would be the indicator to an official that this formation becomes unsportsmanlike? If the team runs straight to the LOS and lines up quickly and snaps the ball to run a fake is that legal or not? It sounds very arbitrary to say these formations could be illegal on all downs.

All of these formations are legal at the NCAA level on 4th down. 48 is the snapper, 32 is at least 7 yards back and 21 is the punter.

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[Mike L]

Here in San Diego, CA we've been told the A-11 is not prohibited by rule. I happen to agree (although I don't like it) and I don't think those states that are outlawing it have a leg to stand on rulewise, but they get to do whatever they want I suppose. For us, we'll officiate to the letter of the law (ie no slack given) regarding shifts, motions, eligibility due to original sets, etc.

[cmathews]

the A-11 is illegal in Wyoming. Our state association made the announcement last night.