Ball Positioning on penalty

[Fedex]

Ok...3rd year official here. I have been selected to a varsity crew as an umpire. I have really only worked the wings and back judge, so this will be new to me. Here's the situation. 1st and 10 from A's 35. The ball is positioned right in between the hashmarks. A33 takes the pitch and runs right for 5 yards OOB to A's 40. During the play, the TE A81 holds at A's 38. This hold occurred right on the right hashmark. B accepts the penalty. Now, my question is this: Is the penalty marked off from the hashmark (Where the foul occurred) or is it marked off from where the ball was previously spotted (between the hashmarks)?

Thanks for the help. Any other advice you guys can give to a new U? I know about the Snicker's bars, but I am slender and speedy so I think I'll skip the candy bars.

[bigwhistle]

ask yourself this question....what is the basic spot? if your answer is the previous spot, then go to the previous spot to mark off the penalty.

that is a good question that lots of young umpires have to work their way through. good luck in the middle. you will find that you get a whole new perspective of the game in there, and that you have a great deal of influence on controlling the players.

[GoodScout]

If the penalty had been administered from the previous spot, then you would march the ball back to midfield and administer from there. Since the penalty occurred and is administered from the spot of the foul, you would start there (or bring it inside the hashes if it was near the sideline) and march down hash marks.

Good luck on being a U. I'm a third-year U, but have only worked a handful of varsity games (our association likes to keep us at the subvarsity level for the first two years). I'll finally be on a varsity crew this season.

Keep eating those Snickers. They'll get you into the proper physique to be an Umpire. :-)

[refbuz]

In the scenario you describe, you'll walk the foul from the spot of the accpeted hold. The succeeding spot of the ball should be on the right hash after the enforcement. You should have 1st & 17 @ A's 28 (if my math is right). If it were a foul enforced from the previous spot (i.e shift/motion) you would walk from the previous spot of the ball (between the hashmarks).

Since your moving into the hole from the wing/deep here some advice:

• Know your keys (4/5-Man: G, C, G + a T 6/7-Man: G, C, G) and stay with them.
  
• Know your enforcements
  
• Don't follow the ball. As an Umipre you should be focusing on the blocking, not the ball. Your guards will tell you what is going on, just follow them and look to call quality point of attack fouls.
  
• NEVER call OPI or DPI
  
• Don't be married to the hash, at a minimum work # to #, don't be afraid to go out to the sideline if needed.
  
• Use soft spots from your wings to spot the ball when you can. ALWAYS use your LJ when you have a 1st Down.
  
• Know your enforcements
  
• Spin on all passes and be ready to rule on anything over the middle between you and the BJ (you might have the best look). If you are certain that you have a catch, bust your butt to the spot (discuss coverage in your pregame). Conversely, if you are certain of no catch, come in strong and wipe it out. If your not sure just head out towards the spot and discuss if necessary.
  
• Don't be shy, talk to the players and your crew to keep them both in the game and the game under control
  
• Did I mention, know your enforcements?

[ajmc]

Although I wouldn't argue with your advice about "Not following the ball", I'd suggest that knowing where the ball is and where it's going, is a paramount consideration. Getting run over is a hazard that is part of the job description and avoiding such contact is important to being able to do anything else.

[waltjp]

When marking off penalty yardage don't get in the habit of counting your steps. If a penalty occured at A's 37 and the ball was being moved back to A's 27 I'd count two steps to the 35, jog (as much as you could in 5 yards) to the 30 and then count off the remaining 3 yards. After pacing off the yardage I'd place the ball or move in to the harsh mark if required.

It's also a good idea to get your HL to pace off the yardage indepedently so you use his spot as a check to see if you agree. It's especially helpful when you start pacing off the yardage in the wrong direction.

[Forksref]

Some umpires use a down indicator or rubber bands on one of their hands to indicate where the ball was laterally so they can return to the right spot on incomplete passes.

In marking off fouls, I always recommend using the lines on the field and not your steps. When I first white-hatted many years ago, my U marked off two consecutive encroachments on the Defense (from 1st and 10) and he ended up short of the line-to-gain!!!

Whenever I umpire, I analyze where exactly between any two lines the ball is. This is true, not only on penalties but also on returning to the previous spot on incomplete passes.

[GoodScout]

I agree on using a second down indicator. Has saved me from brain cramps several times after incomplete passes.

Also, don't forget to work to the LOS on pass plays. You don't want to be the one with the blank stare when the white hat comes up after a rollout and asks you if the passer was past or behind the LOS when he threw the ball.

You'll get a lot of opinions here on whistle work. Some white hats despise members of their crews with whistles in their mouths. Many here love their hand whistles. For me, I keep a lanyard whistle in my mouth until the snap to signal false starts or snap infractions, then drop it from my mouth once the play starts.

Never signal a touchdown. That's the wings' job. You can help them out if both are screened by saying "Unless either of you have the ball down before the line, I have the ball in the end zone." We have a guy with 23 years as an umpire, and he admits he's never thrown his arms up once.

Vary your position. If you stay in the same place, the offense will figure out how to use you as a screen.

Finally, the biggest role you can play as an umpire is controlling the players' emotions during the game. Treat them like adults and pros from the get-go, and you'll have a lot less to deal with. My talking includes:
- Always calling them "gentlemen" so they'll behave like one. "Up easy, gentlemen." "Play's over, gentlemen" "Push off the ground and not other players, gentlemen." Works wonders.
- Kill cross talk as soon as it starts. "White, you talk only to white; Red, you talk only to red."
- Good linemen will try and work you. "Ref, can you keep an eye on No. 50, he's holding on every play." My answer is always "I'll look for it." Nothing more.

Have fun. Always support your white hat. Oh, and as previously mentioned, always know your enforcements to help him out. I'm going to be making flash cards for this summer so I can prep myself.

[Fedex]

I thank you guys for the proper answer and all of the great advice! It's really appreciated. It's really going to help that my white hat has been my mentor for the last two years. I figure that it isn't too early to start prepping for the season. I appreciate the knowledge!

Scott

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Getting run over is a hazard that is part of the job description and avoiding such contact is important to being able to do anything else.

Getting run over definitely makes it a little less fun. You gotta be able to move out there.

The worst is when you have a RB bearing down on you. I was given a helpful technique by a veteran that works pretty well in those situations. If you have a RB coming at you MOVE TOWARDS him. He will react accordingly, if he doesn't, toughen up and be prepared to deliver a blow.

If your not hurt too bad after the collision, make sure you check with the defense's stat man to make sure that you get the credit for a tackle...

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by refbuz

The worst is when you have a RB bearing down on you. I was given a helpful technique by a veteran that works pretty well in those situations. If you have a RB coming at you MOVE TOWARDS him. He will react accordingly, if he doesn't, toughen up and be prepared to deliver a blow.

I found that works pretty well usually...sometimes the RB is not quite so nimble or smart...

Learn to read the screen pass...otherwise you just might end up getting credited with the tackle. Not that I would know that from personal experience. That reminds me, if the play is getting too close to you, don't be afraid to put your arms up and keep the players away from you.

Continually talking to the players and maintaining a presence there is very important and makes working the middle one of the best places to be, IMO of course.

When's the season start?

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by refbuz

[*]Don't be married to the hash, at a minimum work # to #, don't be afraid to go out to the sideline if needed.[/LIST]

Make sure you check and see how the U's in your area work and how your crew wants you to work before you start varying too much from the normal mechanics. I don't want to get into a debate on going to the sideline, but if your crew doesn't buy into it, you're going to cause some problems. Start with the basic mechanics and only vary them if you and the crew talk about any big changes.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I found that works pretty well usually...sometimes the RB is not quite so nimble or smart...

They have bigger issues if they can't juke us fatties in the middle

When's the season start?

Not soon enough...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Fedex

Here's the situation. 1st and 10 from A's 35. The ball is positioned right in between the hashmarks. A33 takes the pitch and runs right for 5 yards OOB to A's 40. During the play, the TE A81 holds at A's 38. This hold occurred right on the right hashmark. B accepts the penalty. Now, my question is this: Is the penalty marked off from the hashmark (Where the foul occurred) or is it marked off from where the ball was previously spotted (between the hashmarks)?

CANADIAN MECHANIC:

Penalties applied from the PLS are just that - from the Point of Last Scrimmage. The PLS includes two components:

• the yard line
• the lateral position of the ball

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Fedex

I thank you guys for the proper answer and all of the great advice! It's really appreciated. It's really going to help that my white hat has been my mentor for the last two years. I figure that it isn't too early to start prepping for the season. I appreciate the knowledge!

Scott

Another thing - buy some towels. Lots of them! I always had one tucked in my belt and would offer some to the entire crew when conditions were really bad. I didn't mind the extra laundy ... I have a lady who does it for me (ducking).