Kentucky won 45-44! 1 point safety

[Axe Man]

I will admit up front that I pull for Tennessee. My question concerns the run back of the blocked kick in the 2nd overtime. The end of the play was a personal foul face mask penalty. The referee stated that by rule, the foul was ignored. I am not greatly versed on NCAA overtime rules but this sounds to me like the opportunity for a cheap shot. Any input from the group on the ruling. Thanks.

[ljudge]

Originally Posted by Axe Man

I will admit up front that I pull for Tennessee. My question concerns the run back of the blocked kick in the 2nd overtime. The end of the play was a personal foul face mask penalty. The referee stated that by rule, the foul was ignored. I am not greatly versed on NCAA overtime rules but this sounds to me like the opportunity for a cheap shot. Any input from the group on the ruling. Thanks.

The R could have chosen his words a little carefully on his announcement. After a change of possession any fouls are automatically cancelled and so are any scores if there are fouls by the scoring team.

I thought about the opp for a cheap shot. I agree. If you grab and pull on the facemask there's a good chance the player with the ball will be tackled. If he scores the game is over so why not do anything you can to avoid the score? That's a heckuva way to think about it but with the rule stated the way it is there's no deterrent.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Axe Man

I will admit up front that I pull for Tennessee. My question concerns the run back of the blocked kick in the 2nd overtime. The end of the play was a personal foul face mask penalty. The referee stated that by rule, the foul was ignored. I am not greatly versed on NCAA overtime rules but this sounds to me like the opportunity for a cheap shot. Any input from the group on the ruling. Thanks.

That is the correct ruling. However, if a cheap shot is deemed to be a flagrant personal foul that player will be disqualified.

[Texas Aggie]

After a change of possession any fouls are automatically cancelled

Check that: Rule 8.4.a has an EXPRESS exception -- 8.3.3.d.2, which reads: "Live ball fouls penalized as dead ball fouls occurring during the try down are penalized ... from the succeeding spot in extra periods."

A PF face mask is such a foul. Blocks in the back, holding, and even a BBW are declined by rule, but a personal foul penalty is not and would fall under this exception.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Check that: Rule 8.4.a has an EXPRESS exception -- 8.3.3.d.2, which reads: "Live ball fouls penalized as dead ball fouls occurring during the try down are penalized ... from the succeeding spot in extra periods."

A PF face mask is such a foul. Blocks in the back, holding, and even a BBW are declined by rule, but a personal foul penalty is not and would fall under this exception.

Whachoo talkin' bout Willis??

Since when has a PF facemask been a "live ball penalized as a dead ball foul"? It is a live ball foul , penalized as such. Accordingly, if it happens after a COP in extra periods, the penalty is declined by rule.

[Nevadaref]

I don't officiate football and do not know the rules. I just enjoy watching the college games. So if my terminology is incorrect, I apologize in advance.

I did see the facemask penalty in question and thought that it was severely unsporting. If the current rule is that the offending team does not suffer the consequences of the penalty for this, then the NCAA needs to change the rule.
Please note that the Tenn. player who threw the ball away after being tackled on the two point try with the game tied at 44 was flagged for unsporting conduct and that 15-yard penalty was assessed on the following OT possession, which forced Tenn. to start at the 40.

The same should apply with the facemask infraction. The NCAA should not give teams free reign to foul on conversions in this manner.

[RoyGardner]

As TXMike notes the facemask penalty is decline by rule:

Fouls During a Try After Team B Possession—ARTICLE 4
Approved Ruling 8-3-4
I. B15 intercepts Team A’s legal forward pass (PAT attempt) and is running at midfield when tackled by A19, who grasps B 15’s face mask. RULING: The try is ended, and the penalty is declined by rule.

IMO it would be a good rule change to "eliminate the free one" and treat any PF after a COP on a try, the same way you would treat a team B PF that occurred during a successful try - enforce it on the kickoff, or at the succeeding spot in extra periods. IMO we shouldn't have a case where a player can commit a 15 yard PF knowing that since it occurred after a COP on a try it's "free".

Or even better would be to add a definition of the phrase "live ball fouls enforced as dead ball fouls", then add a section to the summary of penalties, including all of the current LBDB fouls (taunting, etc) and add this one to the list.

[Texas Aggie]

Since the "live ball penalized as dead ball fouls" are not specifically defined in the rules, please give me the list of such fouls and rules support for the list.

The reason I think the PF/FM is such is because you penalize Team B from the end of the run or succeeding spot. PF penalties like clipping (which is the other AR in 8-3) and chop blocks are not so penalized. Further, Roy, in your AR example, it says "grasps" the face mask. As you well know, the rule calls for a 5 yard penalty for "incidental grasping" and the AR doesn't make it clear that it is not an incidental grasp.

Don't misunderstand here: I'm not NOW saying I'm right. I'm NOW pointing all this out because this can be ambiguous. Is a roughing the passer a live ball penalized as a dead ball?

At any rate, whether the face mask is such a rule, I guess the overall point remains that there IS an exception.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The same should apply with the facemask infraction. The NCAA should not give teams free reign to foul on conversions in this manner.

It was a one in a million foul. I'm quite sure the kid who fouled was just rying to make a play. While it was ugly, it wasn't a premeditated cheap shot. Rarely is a face mask an "intentional" foul.